God Conquers Posted October 16, 2005 Posted October 16, 2005 I'm out of University (thank God) and never dated when I was in University (thank God). I've always felt like it would have been wonderful to go to a solid Catholic University, which didn't happen, and I know that great people and vocations have come from such blessed instutions. (of course always wondering if maybe I'd meet the Catholic woman of my dreams and instantly fall in love and get married and have 5 million children... of course those thoughts are gone now and I have an incredible girlfriend) I have to ask though, after hearing some horror stories, whether marrying while in college (especially an intense Catholic college) is really a good idea. Should we be more prudent in our decisions, even when it seems like it is God's will in the moment? What do ya'll think?
Aloysius Posted October 16, 2005 Posted October 16, 2005 I think oftentimes we are over-prudent in today's culture when it comes to marriage because our expectations are crazy unrealistic. if we view love as something that is ultimately an amazing and awesome act of the human will rather than something where man has no power and is doomed to the fated 'soul-mate', we can understand that any man and woman can have a very successful marriage. saying it is an act of the human will is not any less romantic, in fact I think it is more romantic. Rather than 'we're destined to be together so let's stay together' it's "I CHOOSE you". Reflecting on the immense mystery of human free will and the fact that you are making a decision as the angels make decisions-- a decision that will be lasting for your entire life-- it becomes quite awe-inspiring. if we were supposed to be looking for the one person who is the "best" for us... we'd never have any time to get married cause we'd have to try out all of the billions of people of the opposite sex in the world before we knew who the "best" one was. young marriage is beautiful and good UNLESS it is entered into under the modernist expectation that this is the 'best' person ever and you'll never 'feel' this way about anyone else ever... (because then if you do have a wayward feeling it calls the whole basis of your marriage into question). so personally, I think too many people wait too long in falsely-premised prudence when they should be getting married. but then again, those raised by the modern culture often have an idea of one fated soul mate and these expectectations that it will be a perfect relationship that ultimately doom it all to failure.
God Conquers Posted October 16, 2005 Author Posted October 16, 2005 hmmm.... I'm not sure we're on the same page here. I'm talking about well-catechized catholics who jump into marriage. They know what it's about, and they make a choice (probably a quick one) to get married soon. I think in many cases their mindset IS one where they are defying "modernism". Yet they are losing their marriages and faith alarmingly.
Aloysius Posted October 16, 2005 Posted October 16, 2005 I'm not so sure they are defying modernism even if they are well catechized catholics. I think this is a cultural point of view that permeates even through the Church. they have unrealistic expectations. maybe they framework these expectations with a "God will provide" mantra, but they do have unrealistic expectations. any man and woman can have a successful marriage.
Socrates Posted October 17, 2005 Posted October 17, 2005 [quote name='God Conquers' date='Oct 16 2005, 05:20 PM']hmmm.... I'm not sure we're on the same page here. I'm talking about well-catechized catholics who jump into marriage. They know what it's about, and they make a choice (probably a quick one) to get married soon. I think in many cases their mindset IS one where they are defying "modernism". Yet they are losing their marriages and faith alarmingly. [right][snapback]760467[/snapback][/right] [/quote] My alma mater is intensely Catholic. Many people (though not all, such as myself) have gotten married right out of college. Some marriages may be more prudent than others, however, I have not seen evidence of these people losing their marriage and faith. Most of them stay married and remain Catholic.
God Conquers Posted October 17, 2005 Author Posted October 17, 2005 Yay! (err... about the good marriages... not about you not getting married... i'm a dude so maybe the ladies can rejoice) Ya, I just find that sometimes we can be so intense and lose sight of the fact that marriage may not be idyllic, that there is some suffering and dying tro self involved. I think in the current Catholic climate there's an unrealistic perception of it as all angel's wings and children singing.
Aloysius Posted October 17, 2005 Posted October 17, 2005 yep. I figure you'll hear more about the few failed marriages out of intensely Catholic schools than you'd hear about the successful marriages. An old artical I once read reccomends betrothal for those seeking higher education. That's the path I shall likely follow (well, the betrothal, the higher education has yet to be seen)
photosynthesis Posted October 17, 2005 Posted October 17, 2005 I always was under the impression that people who are orthodox about their religion and get married young are more likely to stay together... I've seen it happen with my Catholic friends as well as my orthodox Jewish friends from high school who got married young..
toledo_jesus Posted October 17, 2005 Posted October 17, 2005 when you have clear rules and boundaries to a marriage (ie in religion) it makes it much easier to get along. The two people have to willingly unite themselves to those rules, though.
photosynthesis Posted October 17, 2005 Posted October 17, 2005 exactly! when people are orthodox about their religion, it gives them a framework for living out their lives together. I have a LOT of friends who are orthodox Jews (we're all in our early 20's), and most of them are either either married or engaged by now. Some even have kids! Even though they're young and immature, their religion makes them better equipped to get married than two thirtysomethings who are apathetic about religion.
scardella Posted October 17, 2005 Posted October 17, 2005 (edited) Of the couples [b]I know[/b] who emerged from that sort of situation, all are still married and happily so. Now, the caveat is that most of them have been married less than 10 years. I do know some who've been married longer, and they're still together. All the married couples that I've seen divorce or have major difficulty in the first several years have not had that devout background. Edited October 17, 2005 by scardella
Socrates Posted October 18, 2005 Posted October 18, 2005 (edited) I think morality and seriousness about religion is a more important factor than age as to whether marriages last. Getting married young does not guarantee a good marriage any more than marrying old. There are plenty of people who rush into youthful marriages, only to get divorced shortly after the reality of married life and kids sets in. Also, people who marry later in life after a series of exclusive sexual "relationships" are psychologically more likely to get divorced, as they are already used to a pattern of temporary monogamous relationships. [quote]I think in the current Catholic climate there's an unrealistic perception of it as all angel's wings and children singing. [/quote] As I've said earlier, devoutly religious Catholics tend to be less likely to get divorced. I have seen no evidence that shows marriages of religious Catholics are more likely to end. And most marriage preparation material or lectures in orthodox Catholic circles I have seen does not give the impression that marriage is without its trials and burdens. God Conquers, I'm really not sure what you are basing your statements on. If there is a problem, it is probably more due to youthful naivity, rather than religion. Edited October 18, 2005 by Socrates
God Conquers Posted October 18, 2005 Author Posted October 18, 2005 Ah... an insightful post, thanks.... I think I'd agree with the naivete statement (in f act, that's probably what I was trying to get at... I'm just confusing) I'd NEVER say that the Catholicity of a marriage is the root problem... I'm quite convinced of the opposite. New question then: Are young Catholics Naive?
Socrates Posted October 18, 2005 Posted October 18, 2005 [quote name='God Conquers' date='Oct 17 2005, 07:36 PM']Ah... an insightful post, thanks.... I think I'd agree with the naivete statement (in f act, that's probably what I was trying to get at... I'm just confusing) I'd NEVER say that the Catholicity of a marriage is the root problem... I'm quite convinced of the opposite. New question then: Are young Catholics Naive? [right][snapback]761746[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Probably not necessarily more naive than other young people. Perhaps less "worldly" (But then would you consider a 19-year-old who's been promiscous, been in a series of abusive relationship, and been raped better prepared for marriage than a 19-year-old devout Catholic virgin?) I think to have a point, you'd have to show that marriages of young devout Catholics are more likely to fall apart than other people's. The experience of myself and others has been otherwise. It seems that maybe you're taking the unfortunate experience of some people you know and unfairly "universalizing" it as a "typical" thing.
photosynthesis Posted October 18, 2005 Posted October 18, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Oct 17 2005, 09:21 PM']But then would you consider a 19-year-old who's been promiscous, been in a series of abusive relationship, and been raped better prepared for marriage than a 19-year-old devout Catholic virgin? [right][snapback]761784[/snapback][/right] [/quote] what's that supposed to mean? does being raped make you ill-prepared for marriage?
Socrates Posted October 18, 2005 Posted October 18, 2005 (edited) [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 17 2005, 09:29 PM']what's that supposed to mean? does being raped make you ill-prepared for marriage? [right][snapback]761898[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Sorry, that's not what I meant to imply. I was merely saying that going through a lot of bad experiences with the opposite sex is not necessarily going to make for a healthier marriage, than if one is "naive." I honestly have no idea what this is like, but I imagine going through that would make relating to the male sex in a postive way somewhat more difficult. Edited October 18, 2005 by Socrates
photosynthesis Posted October 18, 2005 Posted October 18, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Oct 17 2005, 10:33 PM']Sorry, that's not what I meant to imply. [right][snapback]761905[/snapback][/right] [/quote] OK, good.
God Conquers Posted October 18, 2005 Author Posted October 18, 2005 haha... thing is, I never said it was a typical thing. I don't even think it's common. ANyways... I don't know where this is going. I just guess I see so many youngin's getting married and wonder wether it's always a good thing... even if they're good Catholics.
photosynthesis Posted October 18, 2005 Posted October 18, 2005 if it were 100 years ago, people wouldn't even have threads debating this.
photosynthesis Posted October 18, 2005 Posted October 18, 2005 well, I guess they wouldn't have internet message boards either.
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