What rite would I be?

[Aloysius]

cuz not even 100 people in the United States hate the Catholic Church, they hate what they mistakenly think is the Catholic Church. (Fulton J Sheen, one of my heroes)

anyway, if you believe that God dwells within a person if they are saved and go to heaven, then obviously the presence of God is within His saints. to ignore the saints, the part of God that dealt with each of those individual people, would be ignoring a part of God. as Catholics, we seek to know God as totally and as fully as possible, so we wouldn't want to exclude any part.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='Oct 20 2005, 01:51 AM']Oh, I'm sorry.  I have not heard that with the Pope.  I meant with the saints and Mary like asking them to pray for you.  Protestants will tend to not seek intercessor among the physically departed the way that Catholics do-obvious exception being Christ.  This is one of the differences where the Rosary prayer includes "Hail Mary...Blessed are thou amoung women... Pray for us sinners..."  Does that help answer what I meant?

P.S. Why would someone think you pray to the Pope?
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Just for reference... when you're having issues with the Ave Maria:

Luke 1:28 "And the angel being come in, said unto her: [b]Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women[/b]."

Luke 1:42-43 "And she cried out with a loud voice and said: [b]Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.[/b] (43) And whence is this to me that the [b]mother of my Lord [/b]should come to me?"

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. (You should have no trouble praying this part as it comes directly from the Bible). Holy Mary (if one is "full of grace" then they must necessarily be holy), Mother of God ("mother of my Lord"... "Lord"... "Kyrios"), pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. (so really, the only part you may have trouble with is the last full sentence-- you could start up a thread on intercessory prayer). But either way, Latin rite, Eastern rite, or even Orthodox... all hold the truth of the intercessory prayer of the Body of Christ. We are not cut off from the Body when we enter Heaven.

[Sanvean]

A baptized Protestant can't directly enter one of the Eastern Catholic Churches. Were you to receive the Confirmation etc., in an Eastern parish, the priest would be considered to be administering those sacraments on behalf of the Roman Church. Similarly, a person converting to Catholicism from an Orthodox Church is placed within the corrosponding Catholic Church(for example, Ukrainian Orthodox becomes Ukrainian Catholic).

Mind you, if you were to want to formally join another Rite for proper motivations, your request would most likely be approved.

[theculturewarrior]

The word "rite" changes meaning in the Open Mic and the CA's forum. :

[Sanvean]

That's nice, although... it appears here that folks are still talking about Eastern vs. Western Catholicism :

Edited October 20, 2005 by Sanvean

[theculturewarrior]

Yeah, I saw this, and I saw in the CA's forum a thread called, "What are you doing rite now?"

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Oct 20 2005, 07:04 AM'](so really, the only part you may have trouble with is the last full sentence-- [right][snapback]764776[/snapback][/right]
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Bingo.

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Oct 20 2005, 07:04 AM']But either way, Latin rite, Eastern rite, or even Orthodox... all hold the truth of the intercessory prayer of the Body of Christ. We are not cut off from the Body when we enter Heaven.
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I have some thoughts on it. (I remember one the conversations that I had with the directer of the Campus Ministry Center (where the Newman club hung out) at my old college on that topic.) I don't really have any simple questions and that would include a bit more than a short thread, and would not be easy to accomplish everything through a thread.

Now the ex-Lutheran convert to Orthodox that I was talking to said that at the Church that he goes to, that wasn't as ephasized as at the Catholic church(es?) near him. While that may not always be the case, as one who disagrees with that practice, I find the possibility of less emphasis to be more agreeable. If the Eastern rite is like the Orthodox in practice, then that would carry over in my presumptions.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Sanvean' date='Oct 20 2005, 12:39 PM']A baptized Protestant can't directly enter one of the Eastern Catholic Churches. Were you to receive the Confirmation etc., in an Eastern parish, the priest would be considered to be administering those sacraments on behalf of the Roman Church. Similarly, a person converting to Catholicism from an Orthodox Church is placed within the corrosponding Catholic Church(for example, Ukrainian Orthodox becomes Ukrainian Catholic).

Mind you, if you were to want to formally join another Rite for proper motivations, your request would most likely be approved.
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Interesting. And so basically, as a Protestant I would by default have to join as a Roman rite and then if I wanted I could change?

[Nathan]

Join the Catholic Church, Light. Come home.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Nathan' date='Oct 20 2005, 05:05 PM']Join the Catholic Church, Light. Come home.
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1. Theologic disagreement
2. The Roman Catholic Church as I have seen if is not where I am called to serve as a member.

[Nathan]

(double post)

Edited October 20, 2005 by Nathan

[Nathan]

Okay. But I would encourage you to do much reading and prayer before discarding the notion of joining the Church. And remember, whatever avenue you ultimately choose to take, Christ's Universal Church is always open for you.

God bless.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='Oct 19 2005, 11:06 PM']How do I know which would be closest to my views if I was a Catholic?
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On all the dogmatic matters, they are the same. They both accept Papal Authority and the Magisterium and all that it teaches. They are not "different Churches," but rather different traditions of worship and spirituality in the same Church.

The important thing as a Catholic is to conform one's views to those of the Church, rather than demanding that the Church conform to one's own views.

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='Oct 20 2005, 06:10 PM']1. Theologic disagreement
2. The Roman Catholic Church as I have seen if is not where I am called to serve as a member.
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I guess He's going to have to shout then! :

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='Oct 20 2005, 06:48 PM']Bingo.[/quote]

[quote]I have some thoughts on it.  (I remember one the conversations that I had with the directer of the Campus Ministry Center (where the Newman club hung out) at my old college on that topic.)  I don't really have any simple questions and that would include a bit more than a short thread, and would not be easy to accomplish everything through a thread.

Now the ex-Lutheran convert to Orthodox that I was talking to said that at the Church that he goes to, that wasn't as ephasized as at the Catholic church(es?) near him.  While that may not always be the case, as one who disagrees with that practice, I find the possibility of less emphasis to be more agreeable.  If the Eastern rite is like the Orthodox in practice, then that would carry over in my presumptions.
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I agree, the best thing isn't a thread... maybe if you could find a knowledgeable Catholic priest near you, you could discuss your concerns with him?

They are legitimate concerns and you should investigate them until you are satisfied, nothing less.

One caution however, you wouldn't want to join one specific church because they seem to "emphasize it less"-- for that wouldn't be the faith you were embracing in that case, but only the practices of a particular parish. Catholicism is much more than just one parish (praise God), though there may be some slight unimportant differences, they all adhere to the same doctrine.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='Oct 20 2005, 01:51 AM']Oh, I'm sorry.  I have not heard that with the Pope.  I meant with the saints and Mary like asking them to pray for you.  Protestants will tend to not seek intercessor among the physically departed the way that Catholics do-obvious exception being Christ.  This is one of the differences where the Rosary prayer includes "Hail Mary...Blessed are thou amoung women... Pray for us sinners..."  Does that help answer what I meant?

P.S. Why would someone think you pray to the Pope?
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I don't know. The same reason people around here think we worship golden statues with diamond eyes. I'm serious. Just misconceptions (that word may not be strong enough.) I live in a place where there are about 200 Catholics in the entire county. A rural county of only about 20,000 people, if that.

This is from Jommy Akin's site. www.catholic.org



[quote]This is often forgotten by Catholics themselves, and therefore it is not surprising that those who are not Catholic often have a completely wrong conception of Catholic devotion to the Mother of God. They imagine, and sometimes we can understand their reasons for doing so, that Catholics treat the Blessed Virgin as an almost divine being in her own right, as if she had some glory, some power, some majesty of her own that placed her on a level with Christ Himself. They regard the Assumption of Mary into heaven as a kind of apotheosis placed in the Redemption would seem to be equal to that of her Son. +++ But this is all completely contrary to the true mind of the Catholic Church.+++ It forgets that Mary's chief glory is in her nothingness, in the fact of being the "Handmaid of the Lord," as one who in becoming the Mother of God acted simply in loving submission to His command, in the pure obedience of faith. She is blessed not because of some mythical pseudo-divine prerogative, but in all her human and womanly limitations as one who has believed. It is the faith and the fidelity of this humble handmaid, "full of grace" that enables her to be the perfect instrument of God, and nothing else but His instrument. The work that was done in her purely the work of God. "He that is mighty hath done great things in me." The glory of Mary is purely and simply the glory of God in her. and she, like anyone else, can say that she has nothing that she has not received from Him through Christ.

As a matter of fact, this is precisely her greatest glory: that having nothing of her own, retaining nothing of a "self" that could glory in any- thing for her own sake, she placed no obstacle to the mercy of God and in no way resisted His love and His will. Hence she received more from Him than any other saint. he was able to accomplish His will perfectly in her, and His liberty was in no way hindered or turned from its purpose by the presence of an egotistical self in Mary. She was and is in the highest sense a person precisely because, being "immaculate," she was free from every taint of selfishness that might obscure God's light in her being. She was then a freedom that obeyed Him perfectly and in this obedience found the fulfill- ment of perfect love.

The genuine significance of Catholic devotion to Mary is to be seen in the light of the Incarnation itself. The Church cannot separate the Son and the Mother. Because the Church conceived of the Incarnation as God's descent into flesh and into time, and His great gift of Himself to His creatures, she also believes that the one who was closest to Him in this great mystery was the one who participated most perfectly in the gift. When a room is heated by an open flame, surely there is nothing strange in the fact that those who stand closest to the fireplace are the ones who are warmest. And when God comes into the world through the instrumentality of one of His servants, then there is nothing surprising about the fact that His chosen instrument should have the greatest and most intimate share in the divine gift.

Mary, who was empty of all egotism, free from all sin, was as pure as the glass of a very clean window that has no other function than to admit the light of the sun (Son). If we rejoice in that light, we implicitly praise the cleanness of the window. And of course it might be argued that in such a case we might well forget the window altogether. This is true. And yet the Son of God, in emptying Himself of His majestic power, having become a child, abandoning Himself in complete dependence to the loving care of a human Mother, in a certain sense draws our attention once again to her. The Light has wished to remind us of the window, because He is grateful to her and because He has an infinitely tender love, it is certainly a great grace and a privilege, and one of the most important aspects of this privilege is that it enables us to some extent to appreciate the mystery of God's great love and respect for His creatures.

That God should assume Mary into heaven is not just a glorification of a "Mother Goddess." Quite the contrary, it is the expression of the divine love for humanity, and a very special manifestation of God's respect for His creatures, His desire to do honor to the beings He has made in His own image, and most particularly His respect for the body which was destined to be the temple of His glory. If Mary is believed to be assumed into heaven, it is because we too are one day, by the grace of God, to dwell where she is. If human nature is glorified in her, it is because God desires it to be glorified in us too, and it is for this reason that His Son, taking flesh, came into the world.

In all the great mystery of Mary, then, one thing remains most clear: that of herself she is nothing, and that God has for our sakes delighted to manifest His glory and His love in her.

It is because she is, of all the saints, the most perfectly poor and the most perfectly hidden, the one who has absolutely nothing whatever that she attempts to possess as her own, that she can most fully communicate to the rest of us the grace of the infinitely selfless God. And we will most truly possess Him when we have emptied ourselves and become poor and hidden as she is, resembling Him by resembling her.

And all our sanctity depends on her maternal love. The ones she desires to share the joy of her own poverty and simplicity, the ones whom she wills to be hidden as she is hidden, are the ones who share her closeness to God.

[/quote]

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='Oct 20 2005, 04:51 PM']Interesting.  And so basically, as a Protestant I would by default have to join as a Roman rite and then if I wanted I could change?
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[Aloysius]

I'm not sure how closely they relate being a protestant and being roman, though. I know they relate being ukranian orthodox and ukranian rite of course, but I'm not sure it's that strict when it comes to converting from protestantism, churches without apostolic succession and really only 2 valid sacraments...