Liturgical Reform

[Cam42]

SYNOD FATHERS' PROPOSITIONS

VATICAN CITY, OCT 25, 2005 (VIS) - As announced yesterday, given below are some of the 50 propositions presented to the Holy Father for his consideration as he prepares the Apostolic Exhortation for the Eleventh Ordinary General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops. The synodal assembly was held in the Vatican from October 2 to 23, 2005, and had as its theme: "The Eucharist: Source and Summit of the Life and Mission of the Church."

THE LITURGICAL REFORM OF VATICAN COUNCIL II (Proposition no. 2)

"The synodal assembly gratefully recalled the beneficial influence that the liturgical reform implemented following Vatican Council II has had for the life of the Church. This reform has highlighted the beauty of Eucharistic action, which shines out in the liturgical rite. Abuses have occurred in the past, nor are they lacking today though they have to some extent diminished. However, such episodes cannot darken the beauty and validity of the reform which still contains unexplored riches, rather they call for greater attention to 'ars celebrandi,' in which a privileged place must be given to 'actuosa participatio'."




Wow, this seems to be what I have been talking about [i]ad nauseam[/i] for the last 10 years, right hot stuff and Thumper?

Here we go!!!!!!!!

[Cam42]

THE USE OF LATIN IN LITURGICAL CELEBRATIONS (Proposition no. 36)

"In celebrating the Eucharist during international meetings, which are becoming ever more frequent today, in order better to express the unity and universality of the Church it is proposed: that the (con)celebration of Mass be in Latin (except the readings, the homily and the prayer of the faithful), the prayers of the tradition of the Church should also be recited in Latin and, where appropriate, Gregorian chants be sung; that priests, beginning in the seminary, be trained to understand and celebrate Mass in Latin, as well as to use Latin prayers and to appreciate the Gregorian chant; that the possibility of educating the faithful in this way not be overlooked."

[Piccoli Fiori JMJ]

Aw man! This is making me excited!

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Oct 26 2005, 08:57 PM']THE USE OF LATIN IN LITURGICAL CELEBRATIONS (Proposition no. 36)

"In celebrating the Eucharist during international meetings, which are becoming ever more frequent today, in order better to express the unity and universality of the Church it is proposed: that the (con)celebration of Mass be in Latin (except the readings, the homily and the prayer of the faithful), the prayers of the tradition of the Church should also be recited in Latin and, where appropriate, Gregorian chants be sung; that priests, beginning in the seminary, be trained to understand and celebrate Mass in Latin, as well as to use Latin prayers and to appreciate the Gregorian chant; that the possibility of educating the faithful in this way not be overlooked."
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[jiyoung]

HOORAY!!

[Theoketos]

Praise God! O Lord you hear the cry of the poor!

[jezic]

so you are saying this is a good thing?

(not that i don't think so, it is just hard to tell if the op was sarcastic or not. Some post Vatican II stuff was bad.)

[scardella]

So, would this affect regular Sunday or daily Masses?

As it said, I can see how having an international Mass in Latin would make plenty of sense, but I'm not sure if having the whole thing in Latin for Sunday Mass would foster appreciation of the Mass.

EDIT: I wouldn't mind having a few parts in Latin all the time, just not the whole thing.

Edited October 27, 2005 by scardella

[son_of_angels]

Praise God from whom all blessings flow!


I really think that this is a good thing. I also think that although many will hate it at first, in latter times (like 5-15 years) the use of Latin will be a treasure to the heart of many Catholics. They will come to associate Latin with the value of the universal faith, and it will be a credit to our longevity.

O Roma felix! O Roma nobilis!

[Aloysius]

yeah, and that's why they're brinin Latin back in baby-steps. first let's make all the international masses have to use mostly latin... international masses are often broadcast on television so there will be trickeling effect to everyone to start to be familiar with it. then they'll start saying there should be parts of every mass all the time in latin, perhaps the Agnus Dei and the Sanctus, baby step and baby step until Latin has true pride of place liturgically and vernacular is something that is allowed for certain parts to help the faitfhul understand.

[jiyoung]

You know what this brings to mind is WYD. BXVI said most of it in German, and I wondered why then, but it gives a really good example of why Latin in international masses would be best. I know a lot of people in my group were not really able to participate unless we were following the books, and if we all had known Latin and they had been using Latin, we would've all been able to participate as one Church. It really helps unify the Church, both time and space, IMO.

[Cam42]

[quote name='jezic' date='Oct 27 2005, 02:43 PM']so you are saying this is a good thing?

(not that i don't think so, it is just hard to tell if the op was sarcastic or not. Some post Vatican II stuff was bad.)
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Yes, it is a good thing. While Latin is to be the normative language, the vernacular has pushed it's way in....now Latin will have to flex it's muscle and push it back out the door.

While the Latin post was the hook, the more important of the two is the first post. Knowing that the Church is finally going to take participatio actuosa seriously is very heartening.....

Full, conscious and active participation in the Liturgy will naturally lead itself back to Latin and to the proper celebration of the Liturgy, at large.

Praise God.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Oct 27 2005, 08:28 PM']Full, conscious and active participation in the Liturgy will naturally lead itself back to Latin and to the proper celebration of the Liturgy, at large.

Praise God.
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I don't see the connection. You can fully participate in the Mass in English.

[jezic]

proper celebration of the Liturgy?

are you suggesting that the Liturgy we use now isn't proper?

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='jezic' date='Oct 27 2005, 08:52 PM']proper celebration of the Liturgy?

are you suggesting that the Liturgy we use now isn't proper?


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No. JUst that the Novus Ordo was designed to be said in Latin, just as the Mass has been said in Latin for countless centuries. The normative Mass of the Latin Rite is a Latin Mass. That was the case with the Traditional Latin Mass, and it is the case with the Novus Ordo.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 27 2005, 08:37 PM']I don't see the connection. You can fully participate in the Mass in English.
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He said 'proper'.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Oct 27 2005, 08:28 PM']Yes, it is a good thing.  While Latin is to be the normative language, the vernacular has pushed it's way in....now Latin will have to flex it's muscle and push it back out the door.

While the Latin post was the hook, the more important of the two is the first post.  Knowing that the Church is finally going to take participatio actuosa seriously is very heartening.....

Full, conscious and active participation in the Liturgy will naturally lead itself back to Latin and to the proper celebration of the Liturgy, at large.

Praise God.
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Praise God indeed!

[Cam42]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 27 2005, 08:37 PM']I don't see the connection. You can fully participate in the Mass in English.
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Ok CMom....here is the challenge.

Show me (quotes please) where it says that the vernacular is the normative language of the Church.

When you can do that I will accept your statement.

The connection is that the normative language of the Liturgy is Latin. When the normative language is restored, then the FULL, active, and conscious participation will be re-acheived.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Oct 27 2005, 11:13 PM']Ok CMom....here is the challenge.

Show me (quotes please) where it says that the vernacular is the normative language of the Church.

When you can do that I will accept your statement.

The connection is that the normative language of the Liturgy is Latin.  When the normative language is restored, then the FULL, active, and conscious participation will be re-acheived.
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Oh Camster...


Just use the argument that you used to turn me around on it.




VATICAN CITY NEWS --

Also in a lesser publicized note from the Synod, Pope Benedict XVI (That was for you Donna) has asked for better training for liturgical guitarists.

Edited October 28, 2005 by jaime

[Aloysius]

I believe what he is getting at is the fullest way of participating in the Mass is to participate in it in the Universal Tongue, and in that way connecting yourself with Catholics all over the world who are also praying in the Universal Tongue.