dairygirl4u2c Posted October 27, 2005 Posted October 27, 2005 I found it interesting that a majority said it would be reasonble to not become a catholic even after reading everything on phatmass. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359[/url] Are you saying this because you think conversion is more than intellectual or.. What about the fact that the reading would one would think steer one to somehow into the CC.. Are you thinking that it's ultimately by faith that one becomes Catholic? What are those reasonable reasons that you were thinking of?
photosynthesis Posted October 27, 2005 Posted October 27, 2005 is there a reasonable reason for posting all these polls?
scardella Posted October 27, 2005 Posted October 27, 2005 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Oct 26 2005, 09:23 PM']I found it interesting that a majority said it would be reasonble to not become a catholic even after reading everything on phatmass. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359[/url] Are you saying this because you think conversion is more than intellectual or.. What about the fact that the reading would one would think steer one to somehow into the CC.. Are you thinking that it's ultimately by faith that one becomes Catholic? What are those reasonable reasons that you were thinking of? [right][snapback]771509[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It's very simple, just like the parable of the sower. There's plenty of evidence to support all the teachings and authority of the church. It can get everything it needs to survive. However, some people refuse to hear, some are choked out by worries of the world, the flesh, or the devil, some have been so maltreated or conditioned that Catholicism is alien or evil to them, even if they study it. Is that reasonable? Some things are, some aren't. Additionally, you're right about one thing, we're not purely rational beings. We have physical, spiritual, intellectual, emotional and social dimensions. Catholicism addresses them all. A scouring of Phatmass, however, does not cover it all. So, to answer you, yes and no. One can make compelling/brilliant arguments, but that does not address the whole of our being. The conversion process itself is a mystery, because, ultimately, each man is a mystery, and someone's faith is that the center of that mystery. I might also add that grace is a large component here, and grace is a mystery as well.
tojo Posted October 27, 2005 Posted October 27, 2005 Conversion is the work of the Holy Spirit, not of phatmass, though He could choose to use phatmass as one of the ways He draws someone home to the Church, if He wanted to.
cmotherofpirl Posted October 27, 2005 Posted October 27, 2005 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Oct 26 2005, 10:23 PM']I found it interesting that a majority said it would be reasonble to not become a catholic even after reading everything on phatmass. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359[/url] Are you saying this because you think conversion is more than intellectual or.. What about the fact that the reading would one would think steer one to somehow into the CC.. Are you thinking that it's ultimately by faith that one becomes Catholic? What are those reasonable reasons that you were thinking of? [right][snapback]771509[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Phatmass provides discussion of the truth, but GOD provides the GRACE.
1337 k4th0l1x0r Posted October 27, 2005 Posted October 27, 2005 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Oct 26 2005, 09:23 PM']I found it interesting that a majority said it would be reasonble to not become a catholic even after reading everything on phatmass. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359[/url] Are you saying this because you think conversion is more than intellectual or.. What about the fact that the reading would one would think steer one to somehow into the CC.. Are you thinking that it's ultimately by faith that one becomes Catholic? What are those reasonable reasons that you were thinking of? [right][snapback]771509[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I refuse to speculate.
dspen2005 Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Oct 26 2005, 10:23 PM']I found it interesting that a majority said it would be reasonble to not become a catholic even after reading everything on phatmass. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359[/url] Are you saying this because you think conversion is more than intellectual or.. What about the fact that the reading would one would think steer one to somehow into the CC.. Are you thinking that it's ultimately by faith that one becomes Catholic? What are those reasonable reasons that you were thinking of? [right][snapback]771509[/snapback][/right] [/quote] actually only 17 said "no", the other answered in a different manner -- 13 yes, 11 refusing to speculate, and 9 who do not know -- so, you can't make the judgement that the "majority", when in fact it is not the majority.
Cow of Shame Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 perhaps her hidden agenda is to see how much we know about statistics
scardella Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 [quote name='Cow of Shame' date='Oct 28 2005, 01:39 AM']perhaps her hidden agenda is to see how much we know about statistics [right][snapback]772683[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Hrm... maybe you should do a t-test to see if her claim is claimable...
Cow of Shame Posted October 29, 2005 Posted October 29, 2005 [quote name='scardella' date='Oct 28 2005, 09:06 AM']Hrm... maybe you should do a t-test to see if her claim is claimable... [right][snapback]772760[/snapback][/right] [/quote] don't you threaten me! I've left those skills way behind me heh
beatty07 Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 Can we rephrase the question: "Are we so amazingly brilliant and holy that anyone who reads what we write must be irrational not to instantly convert to our Faith?" I find the survey heartening...I'd sure worry about anyone that arrogant. It doesn't presume a defect in the Faith to admit that we don't have very big brains.
Proud2BCatholic139 Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 Most of the reasons why I hear people whom I know are not Catholic anymore is because... The Pope....they don't agree with him. The Mass...How it is so long. Lack of Faith....in the Eurchrist.
Theoketos Posted November 7, 2005 Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='beatty07' date='Nov 3 2005, 11:56 AM']Can we rephrase the question: "Are we so amazingly brilliant and holy that anyone who reads what we write must be irrational not to instantly convert to our Faith?" I find the survey heartening...I'd sure worry about anyone that arrogant. It doesn't presume a defect in the Faith to admit that we don't have very big brains. [right][snapback]777850[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That is a really good way of putting it.
MichaelFilo Posted November 12, 2005 Posted November 12, 2005 Conversion isn't just intellectual. Some start theri conversion to Catholicism long before they hear a single Catholic arguement, still others will start their conversion from the intellectual arguement, which will let way to the spiritual conversion. Phatmass has the intellectual down, I think; although I found it to lack the comprehensiveness that I wanted and so ended up going to some other sources; but on an intellectual level, Phatmass should be almost sufficient to at least comprehend and possibly accept the possibility of the Catholic Faith to be true. God bless, Mikey
Ken Posted November 12, 2005 Posted November 12, 2005 I choose not to be catholic because I dont trust organized religion. And seeing as things like the crusades, the inquisition, and slavery seemed to have been connected to catholics, I dont trust it that much more. I remember being berated by CCD teachers as a youth when I would question them. I have no idea what religion, or faith I belong to, but I keep an open enough mind to listen, and discuss.
MichaelFilo Posted November 12, 2005 Posted November 12, 2005 I must ask, Ken, if by rejecting religious institutions you mean you fancy yourself as someone who is opposed to people and their wrongdoing and you equate that with a religion? You see, an Inquisition is carried about by people, not a religion, as is a Crusdade, as is slavery (and as to the latter, I don't see the Catholic connection). However, a Jihad is carried out by percepts of religion; so is circumcision; so is baptism. Of these we can say that they have in themselves a religious aspect for it is part of the common belief. It is not common for the list you enumerated to be considered particular to any religion, as in nowhere in the Faith do we see such a consensus on such practices. Mind, I don't denounce them, but I wouldn't equate a Crusade with being Catholic because it is not an intrinsic part of the religion (unless you consider the spiritual battle, but I don't think you or I do consider it to be the self same as the Crusades you mentioned). God bless, Mikey
StatingTheObvious Posted November 12, 2005 Posted November 12, 2005 [quote name='Ken' date='Nov 12 2005, 03:21 AM']I choose not to be catholic because I dont trust organized religion. And seeing as things like the crusades, the inquisition, and slavery seemed to have been connected to catholics, I dont trust it that much more. I remember being berated by CCD teachers as a youth when I would question them. I have no idea what religion, or faith I belong to, but I keep an open enough mind to listen, and discuss. [right][snapback]786300[/snapback][/right] [/quote]the government allows a certain amount of bug mushy mud pie and bug carcasses in grain being used for food because we ain't perfect. you still eat cheerios and wonderbread don't you since the alternative to refuse ceral and bread is stupid. my uncle always used to say 'bubba, don't be so picky what you eat. fish swim in their own pee. go get me a beer so i can pee on the fish.' know what i mean?
PadreSantiago Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 RE: Reply to REPLYING TO REASONABLE REASONS To whom it may concern: The department of Redundent Redundencies has found this to be in direct violation of RR writs! Specfically sections pertaining to the redundent repetition and or un-reasonable use of abitrary aliteration. ahem anyway and in conclusion you can't expect someone to just read some threads on an internet forum and change their whole outlook on life and reality. I personally think religion is a personal thing, I don't need a church or a priest to have a relationship with god. God is everything.(my metaphor is better!) [quote]You see, an Inquisition is carried about by people, not a religion[/quote] But ahah! You see religion is carried out by people that's the problem.
StatingTheObvious Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 (edited) [quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Nov 13 2005, 05:49 AM']RE: Reply to REPLYING TO REASONABLE REASONS To whom it may concern: The department of Redundent Redundencies has found this to be in direct violation of RR writs! Specfically sections pertaining to the redundent repetition and or un-reasonable use of abitrary aliteration. ahem anyway and in conclusion you can't expect someone to just read some threads on an internet forum and change their whole outlook on life and reality. I personally think religion is a personal thing, I don't need a church or a priest to have a relationship with god. God is everything.(my metaphor is better!) But ahah! You see religion is carried out by people that's the problem. [right][snapback]787089[/snapback][/right] [/quote]the key word is reasonable, but it seems you missed that. human society operates as an organic society with organizations and groups and what-not. you wouldn't have even heard about god if there wasn't some sort of organization that passed the word onto you that was consistent over a period of time longer then the lifetime of one person. people aren't databanks that just download what they need, neither are we animals that are just born with instincts and thats the limit of our knowledge. you can tolerate a little bug poo in your cheerios, tolerate a bit of human imperfection in a religion. Edited November 13, 2005 by StatingTheObvious
DAF Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 As others have said, your poll doesn't prove anything. Your question said "after reading everything on PM, would it be unreasonable not to be catholic?" Of course it would not be unreasonable. Sometimes it takes more than a bunch of articles on a message board to determine your religion (although some do it). And anyway, Catholicism is surely more than PM.
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