Wipe Israel from map, says Iran’s president

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Oct 30 2005, 09:39 AM']The comment was about the Iranian government, not Mohammed.
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i think he's saying Islam has its roots firmly planted in exterminating "unbelievers"
so... what we see today is nothing new

[son_of_angels]

I should hope, for their own sake, however, that they do not attempt war with Israel. The Jews will wipe the floor with them.

Even if the Iranians were to have nuclear weapons, Israel has an arsenal that could wipe out every major city in Iran. Think about their war with Egypt....

The question is, do the Jews have the guts to defend themselves and the other peoples (Christian and Islam) under their care in this day and time, or does the Christian West have to take up the slack in order to defend what is also OUR Holy Land and religious sites? If we must do the work anyway, I would suggest that Israeli/Palestinian sovereignty is no longer expedient.

[StColette]

Vatican condemns Iran's call for destruction of Israel

Vatican, Oct. 28 (CWNews.com) - The Vatican has denounced as "unacceptable" a statement by Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadeinejad, who had called for the destruction of the state of Israel.

Although he did not mention the Iranian leader by name, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, the director of the Vatican press office, condemned "certain statements, particularly serious and unacceptable, in which the right to the existence of the state of Israel was denied."

The Vatican spokesman said that Israelis and Palestinians alike have the right to "peace and security in their own sovereign states."

[url="http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=40444"]http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=40444[/url]

[Norseman82]

[quote name='son_of_angels' date='Oct 30 2005, 03:18 PM']The question is, do the Jews have the guts to defend themselves and the other peoples (Christian and Islam) under their care in this day and time, or does the Christian West have to take up the slack in order to defend what is also OUR Holy Land and religious sites?
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That's interesting. I've observed that Israel has been more willing to use force in self-defense, and it has been the "Christian west" that has pressured Israel to restrain itself.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='Oct 30 2005, 12:35 PM']i think he's saying Islam has its roots firmly planted in exterminating "unbelievers"
so... what we see today is nothing new
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Exactly. Claiming Mohammed is irrelevant to the teachings of Islam is like saying Jesus Christ is irrelevent to the teachings of the Church.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Oct 30 2005, 10:50 PM']Exactly.  Claiming Mohammed is irrelevant to the teachings of Islam is like saying Jesus Christ is irrelevent to the teachings of the Church.
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The comment was not about Mohammed. It was about Iran.

If somebody posts a story about Frances Kissling, and says "hmmm, I thought Catholicism was supposed to be pro-life", it's not exactly relevant, because Frances Kissling does not represent Catholicism. If the story was about the Pope, it would be a different story, because the Pope DOES represent Catholicism.

Catch my drift?

[son_of_angels]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Oct 31 2005, 06:41 AM']The comment was not about Mohammed. It was about Iran.

If somebody posts a story about Frances Kissling, and says "hmmm, I thought Catholicism was supposed to be pro-life", it's not exactly relevant, because Frances Kissling does not represent Catholicism. If the story was about the Pope, it would be a different story, because the Pope DOES represent Catholicism.

Catch my drift?
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I think that he was saying that it was not ONLY Iran which represented a religion bent on killing infidels, etc. but also Islam itself, deriving from particular teachings of Muhammed.

How Iran interprets Islam I would hardly characterize as hypocritical or peculiar, excepting the more liberal Islamics in the United States and Europe, among many, many nations. Simply put, I think Iran has it right in its ability to meld civil religion with civil society, it just has the wrong religion, and that religion is itself dangerous to us.

We must understand that, even though Islam is a religion of Abraham and monotheism, it is the natural enemy of Catholicism, due especially to its iconoclastic principles, anti-Western character, its perception of us as polytheists, its blasphemies regarding the nature of Jesus Christ, and, especially, the fact that we are both evangelizing religions (though they have more recourse to violence).

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='son_of_angels' date='Oct 31 2005, 08:45 AM']
We must understand that, even though Islam is a religion of Abraham and monotheism, it is the natural enemy of Catholicism,
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holy flarking shnizit, Batman!

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote][b]Pope condemns anti-Israel statements, increased Holy Land violence[/b]
[font="Courier"]Vatican City, Oct. 31, 2005 (CNA) - On Saturday, Pope Benedict expressed his personal condemnation of recent anti-Israeli statements, and called on the international community to show its solidarity against increased violence in the Holy Land.

The Holy Father’s declaration was made public over the weekend by Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro Valls.

In it, the Pope said that "The serious events in the Holy Land over the last few days are a cause of grave concern to the Holy See which, uniting itself with the entire international community, expresses its own firm condemnation of acts of violence - the terrorist attack on Hadera and the subsequent retaliation - from whichever side they come, and of certain particularly serious and unacceptable declarations denying the right of existence to the State of Israel.”

Last week, Iran’s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad claimed to speak for his entire nation when he commented that Israel should be “wiped off the map.”

"On this occasion,”, the Pope said, “the Holy See reaffirms the right of both Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace and security, each in their own sovereign State.”

"At the same time,” the Pope continued, “the Holy See feels the duty to renew its appeal to the leaders of all the peoples of the Middle East, to listen to the longing for peace and justice that rises from the population…”

He also called on them the leaders “to avoid actions and decisions leading to division and death, and to commit themselves with courage and determination to creating the minimum conditions necessary for dialogue to resume, which is the only way to guarantee a future of peace and prosperity to the children of that land."[/font][/quote]
[url="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=5287"]ARTICLE[/url]

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Oct 31 2005, 07:41 AM']The comment was not about Mohammed. It was about Iran.

If somebody posts a story about Frances Kissling, and says "hmmm, I thought Catholicism was supposed to be pro-life", it's not exactly relevant, because Frances Kissling does not represent Catholicism. If the story was about the Pope, it would be a different story, because the Pope DOES represent Catholicism.

Catch my drift?
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ok - supposing a terrorist leader of a country calls out to radical Islamic all peoples to burn Israel to the ground --- and people would say "hey, i thought Islam was founded on peace, not convert-or-die tactics... these people dont speak for Islam"
oh wait - Islam WAS founded on a "convert-by-the-sword" thought... so

Catch [i]my[/i] drift?
i guess these guys are not contradicting thier Islamic foundations ... and maybe they do speak for Islam..
after all ---- we have yet to hear a loud out-cry from all the other "leaders of Islam" against killing so-called "infidels"

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='Oct 31 2005, 07:47 PM']ok - supposing a terrorist leader of a country calls out to radical Islamic all peoples to burn Israel to the ground --- and people would say "hey, i thought Islam was founded on peace, not convert-or-die tactics... these people dont speak for Islam"
oh wait - Islam WAS founded on a "convert-by-the-sword" thought... so

Catch [i]my[/i] drift?
i guess these guys are not contradicting thier Islamic foundations ... and maybe they do speak for Islam..     
after all ---- we have yet to hear a loud out-cry from all the other "leaders of Islam" against killing so-called "infidels"
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Can someone explain to me the difference between a heretic and an infidel. Because I remember a conversation on these phorums were the church felt it was absolutely justified in the killings of so called heretics. I see a parallel between that and Islams infidel battelcry. Am I mistaken here?

[Era Might]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='Oct 31 2005, 08:47 PM']ok - supposing a terrorist leader of a country calls out to radical Islamic all peoples to burn Israel to the ground --- and people would say "hey, i thought Islam was founded on peace, not convert-or-die tactics... these people dont speak for Islam"
oh wait - Islam WAS founded on a "convert-by-the-sword" thought... so

Catch [i]my[/i] drift?
i guess these guys are not contradicting thier Islamic foundations ... and maybe they do speak for Islam..      
after all ---- we have yet to hear a loud out-cry from all the other "leaders of Islam" against killing so-called "infidels"
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There is no Islamic leader, as there is in Catholicism (ie, the Pope). Islam is a religion with a diverse understanding and appreciation of itself. The Iranian government does not speak for Islam. It speaks for itself. There are plenty of Muslims who see their religion differently. The Church is not at war with Islam. Like everything else, the Church affirms and encourages what is good and true and noble, and seeks to purify all the rest through dialogue.

My bottom line point is that it does nothing to advance dialogue to take one group and throw it in the other's face. You say Islam is not peaceful. There are Muslims who would argue to the contrary. Address their concerns and yours with the religion at hand, and not with the views of Muslims who, although entitled to their opinion, do not speak for Islam or the Islamic world.

If Islam is peaceful or not, it's not because the Iranian government does or does not call for the elimination of Israel. It will be because the recognized sources of faith in the religion tend toward one reality or the other.

Edited November 1, 2005 by Era Might