Why follow God when you're only going to get hurt?

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

I look around and see people in my life who have lived in sin for a long time, and yet none of them had to deal with a known miscarriage. Cousins who haven't even had a boyfriend for six months and get pregnant and move in with their boyfriends and have healthy babies. One who has two by two different fathers. A relative who married after her daughter was 11. One who has had two marriages, five children. One who has had five marriages and has three children.

Tell me, what's the point in following God if the end result is everything I'd ever care about is going to be taken away from me?


Really..what's the point?

[homeschoolmom]

Beats the alternative of not following God...

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

Doesn't really seem that way.

[StColette]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Oct 28 2005, 01:16 PM']Beats the alternative of not following God...
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I agree.

[argent_paladin]

Christ never said that following Him means that we don't get hurt. In fact, look at Mary who had her heart pierced, as promised. Or Christ himself, who was tortured extensively and killed. Or every apostle who were tortured and killed (except John who was imprisoned on an island). Or Paul, who was shipwrecked, imprisioned, beaten many times, etc.
First, we cannot judge the happiness of others just by looking at them. Most people are quite good at appearing happy, when they are far from that inside. Plus, only God knows how our life will play out. Just because someone is happy today, that doesn't mean that they will be happy tomorrow.
Christ came to save us from our sins and to give us eternal life, not to save us from pain or suffering, or even death in this world. Embracing the Cross means embracing a life of suffering and persecution.
Imagine how much worse it would be if you believed that your child simply ceased to exist (or never existed in the first place) as most materialists believe. Imagine if you believed that there was no God, no purpose in the universe and pain was simply the response to random interactions in the universe, ultimately meaningless.
Being a Christian does not mean that we are exempt from pain and suffering (indeed, it may mean we will have more). But it does mean that we can be healed and we know who the Healer is. Christians know where to go to be healed and made whole. Non-Christians must remain in their broken, wounded state, without any hope of healing. That is the difference.

[azaelia]

:edit:

[Luthien]

My Mothers first child was stillborn. His name is Andrew. My parents had 6 very healthy babies after that.

Be sad now, but please don't lose hope.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

This semester I have had four friends die, and it was really diffucult for me until the following came to me and helped my grief, maybe it can help you too.


I was sitting at a desk getting ready for my World Views and Moral Values class with Dr. Jorge Nobo, and I blessed with an idea that helped me consol my recent grief. I was flipping through my book looking agian through the reading we were to discuss that day from Problem from Philosophy by James Rachels, and one paragraph in particular caught my eye.

"You might aask, If God is perfectly good, why didn't he create that sort of evironment [a pefect world with no danger or evil] for us? The answer is that if we lived in that sort of environment we would not be the kinds of creatures we are. In a "perfect" world, there would be no problems to overcome and thus no occasion for the development of moral character. There could be no such thing as courage, because there would be no dangers to face. There could be no such thing as helpfulness or generosity, because no one would need help. All the other virtues-such as kindness, compassion, perseverance, and creativity-would also go by the wayside, because we develop such qualities only by striving to cope with adversity (page 37)."

As well a girl in my class asked a question about how in philosophy and Christian belief where the devil fit in. I quickly got bored with Dr. Nobo's answer so I only half listened while my mind started to spin with connectons of the previous passage, with the question the girl asked, and the basic idea of free will.

I reasoned that first of all free will is necessary for God to be able to show his love to us. Sure if God wanted to he could have created us without free will, but wouldn't we just be fleshy robots? We would do what we were programed to do, but not have any options to do otherwise. How is that freedom and love? it's not it's bondage and servitude. God knew this and gave us the freedom to function how he designed us or choose not to. The ultimate show of God's love is his willingness to let us reject him. It is a greater show of our love to choose to love God rather than being forced to love God.

Now if God had created a perfect environment with everything we needed with no temptation, or anything bad then we would have never been given the oportunity to use our free will. It's like being given a car with no gas. You have the car, but you can't use it. The tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was the first chance we (Adam and Eve) had a chance to exercise their free will, the serpent was a catlyst to force that exercising. If that had never happened then free will couldn't have been fully recognized and appreciated.

Now it should not said that Adam and Eve HAD to eat from the tree, but because of that action we recieved the addition of an increased number of chances to choose or reject God. I also do not meant to say that this increased ability to choose or reject God is a good thing, or that the fall is good and necessary. The fall was not necessary, because even if Adam and Eve did not eat of the tree the temptation would not go away. The tree would still have existed and thus still provided the mechanism for temptation and thus the exersice of our free will, and the show of our love. God even has supplied this ability of free will to the angels as told to us by the Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 311

"Angels and men, as inteligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and prefernential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has moral evil, incommensurably more harmful than physical evil, entered into the world. God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil.(176) He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, myseriously, knows how to derive good from it: ..."

God allows evil to happen, because he know he can derive good from it. We can be strengthened by things when we overcome evil things, or when we deal with why bad things happen to good people, we gain virtues like James Rachels talked about. I have been forced to deal with the untimely deaths of four friends so far this semester, and now I have this idea to help me.

My prayers go out for you Mrs. Bro. Adam,

Ben

[photosynthesis]

Jesus Christ came to reconcile the whole world to Himself, and He did so through His suffering on the cross. With Christ, our ENTIRE lives have meaning, and that includes our suffering! God sanctifies human suffering when we offer it up to Him and unite it to the sufferings of Christ.

Without God, there is no meaning. Life is just an accident, all is chaos. Suffering has no meaning, joy has no meaning, it is all about the pursuit of fleeting pleasure.

Jesus promises eternal reward for those who follow Him

[theculturewarrior]

In life, we suffer. Better to suffer with Him than without Him.

[Sojourner]

I've personally found the Book of Job to be very helpful in working through situations like this.

[avemaria40]

Hey, I just wanted to say that I am praying for you

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Oct 28 2005, 02:53 PM']I've personally found the Book of Job to be very helpful in working through situations like this.
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Yeah, I'm feeling like one of Job's friends right now. Mea CULPA!

I'm praying too!

[StatingTheObvious]

[quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Oct 28 2005, 02:14 PM']I look around and see people in my life who have lived in sin for a long time, and yet none of them had to deal with a known miscarriage.  Cousins who haven't even had a boyfriend for six months and get pregnant and move in with their boyfriends and have healthy babies.  One who has two by two different fathers.  A relative who married after her daughter was 11.  One who has had two marriages, five children.  One who has had five marriages and has three children.

Tell me, what's the point in following God if the end result is everything I'd ever care about is going to be taken away from me?
Really..what's the point?
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Everything? Really?
One baby is everything? Your husband is gone? Your health is gone? Are you in financial ruin and can't buy food? Are you in constant pain that nothing can be done for? Is one of your parents suffering from a fatal illness?

Life smells of elderberries sometimes. I'm not denying a broken leg hurts, but that doesn't smell of elderberries as bad as missing a leg.

Embrace what you have while you cry about your pain. Don't wallow in your loss and reject what still remains. Your husband lost a child too and now has a wife who is suffering.

Yes, you are entitled to your cry and you've earned the right to complain, but be glad you have another's arms to hold you while you cry and another's heart to understand your suffering.

[Era Might]

Our Lady had an eternal good taken from her, namely, her only Son. She has received her reward, and so will we.

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

[quote name='StatingTheObvious' date='Oct 28 2005, 03:33 PM']Everything?  Really?
One baby is everything?  Your husband is gone?  Your health is gone?  Are you in financial ruin and can't buy food?  Are you in constant pain that nothing can be done for?  Is one of your parents suffering from a fatal illness?

Life smells of elderberries sometimes.  I'm not denying a broken leg hurts, but that doesn't smell of elderberries as bad as missing a leg.

Embrace what you have while you cry about your pain.  Don't wallow in your loss and reject what still remains.  Your husband lost a child too and now has a wife who is suffering. 

Yes, you are entitled to your cry and you've earned the right to complain, but be glad you have another's arms to hold you while you cry and another's heart to understand your suffering.
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Whatever.

[thessalonian]

When those people who sin and do not know God run in to turmoil in their lives and trials come their way, will he be there to comfort them? Will they even look for him or fear him, knowing their sins and so continue to ignore him. For the neglected him when things were good. Worse they have denied the blessings that you speak of that are from him. Cry out to him in your pain. But the sun shines on the good and the bad. The difference with the good is that they recognize that the sun is from him and praise him for it. In times of trial they realize that there are lessons he is trying to teach them for possible trials later in life or for greater work that he has for them to accomplish. Many of the great saints had parents die when they were very young, such as Therese the Little Flower. I believe even JP II lost his mother very early. The web says 1929. Benedict XVI had to go through much trial in Gernany. God has plans for those who take up their cross and follow Christ.

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='StatingTheObvious' date='Oct 28 2005, 03:33 PM']Everything?  Really?
One baby is everything?  Your husband is gone?  Your health is gone?  Are you in financial ruin and can't buy food?  Are you in constant pain that nothing can be done for?  Is one of your parents suffering from a fatal illness?

Life smells of elderberries sometimes.  I'm not denying a broken leg hurts, but that doesn't smell of elderberries as bad as missing a leg.

Embrace what you have while you cry about your pain.  Don't wallow in your loss and reject what still remains.  Your husband lost a child too and now has a wife who is suffering. 

Yes, you are entitled to your cry and you've earned the right to complain, but be glad you have another's arms to hold you while you cry and another's heart to understand your suffering.
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I think we all need to read the Book of Job at this point.

[Tink]

One thing I've learned soooo well in my life is that the Lord is so very close to the brokenhearted. Offer all suffering for others, allow your eyes to be fixed upon His face, even though they may be filled with tears. And, like the apostles, have the strength to stay. Don't run away from your dedications to the faith, daily prayer, or Adoration. Because if you do, you won't be in the upper room when the Spirit DOES come. (inspired by the words of my friend, who is in a Benedictine monastary)

Edited October 28, 2005 by Tink

[matt_in_ohio]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41814&hl="]I’ve had some pretty bad times in my own life lately, which I wrote about in this forum.[/url]

Basically, my mom is dying from cancer. There is no cure. I’ve had to watch her slowly degenerate over the last two years, to where she can’t even get out of bed and is in constant pain. It is difficult to watch. I also lost my grandfather last summer when he had a major stroke. There has been some other stuff as well, but basically the past year especially has been very difficult for me.

Now I am not trying to compare loosing a parent (or a grandparent) to loosing a child. They are completely different situations, and they are both horrible experiences to have to live through. But it has forced me to ask the same question you are now asking; “Why follow God when you're only going to get hurt?” My answer may sound simple, or childish, or something - but I continue to follow God because I don’t want to believe that this is the last time I will ever see my mom again. I want to continue to follow God in the hopes that when my mom, and I, and all the people I care about leave this world, we will see each other in the next. There is other comfort I get in knowing that people are praying for me, and often I’ve found going to church to be a temporary sanctuary from reality. But that’s basically it. That is what I have focused on, and it has worked for me. Maybe it won’t work for you, but I felt compelled to post my thoughts on the off chance it does. I know it has helped me to put everything else into the background.

My aunt had a child who was stillborn, and she believes that “Princess” is watching her from Heaven. I hope that my grandfather is watching me, and that my mom will one day as well. In some ways I can still feel my grandfather’s influence in my life. It has encouraged me to believe that no one is ever really gone.

I’ll keep you in my thoughts and prayers…

Matt.