Restaurant in Chicago asking children to behave

[StatingTheObvious]

When I want to know if a place serves children, I usually have to ask if it's oven-grilled or fried. I hate fried children.

[socalscout]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 10 2005, 08:01 PM']Kids who cry or scream in public need to be physically picked up and removed from the scene until they can behave. You never argue with a child in public, you leave. No discussion, no listening to promises of I'll be good, you simply leave. You only have to do it once or twice til they get the idea.
[right][snapback]785308[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I agree that a screaming child cannot be left screaming in a restaurant or a library etc. However that will not stop their behavior if the goal of the child is to leave. You have only reinforced that behavior.

When you are shopping at a grocery store and your child starts to act up when you have a cart load of groceries to you leave them and walk out? Not me.

It also depends on the age. If a child is at an incorrigible age then just don't go to nice restaurants or public places that require a quieter atmosphere.

There is no one answer and parenting differs from parent to parent. :

[socalscout]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Nov 10 2005, 09:31 PM']And as far as I am concerned, the picking them up and removing them from a scene is a form of discipline. [right][snapback]785385[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Not if their goal [i]is [/i]to leave. Mass is a perfect example. We sit at the pews/chairs then 15 minutes in, my 2 year old starts to scream. We now go to the vestibule where we spend another 15 minutes then he starts to get upset because he wants to leave the building altogether. Well that is where I draw the line and he can scream his little head off for all I care because I am not leaving Mass. I will not reinforce that behavior or set that example.

Side note: I was at a Mass where I had to bring my child in the vestibule and the monsignor, who was not saying Mass at the time, told me I should be ashamed for pulling him out of God's choir aka the other screaming children in the pews. He is a great guy.

Edited November 11, 2005 by socalscout

[cmotherofpirl]

If my kids goal was TO leave, we left, and they came straight home to sit in the corner while the rest of us ate pizza.
My kids never misbehaved in church, not even as babies.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='socalscout' date='Nov 11 2005, 09:35 AM']I agree that a screaming child cannot be left screaming in a restaurant or a library etc. However that will not stop their behavior if the goal of the child is to leave. You have only reinforced that behavior.

When you are shopping at a grocery store and your child starts to act up when you have a cart load of groceries to you leave them and walk out? Not me.

It also depends on the age.  If a child is at an incorrigible age then just don't go to nice restaurants or public places that require a quieter atmosphere.

There is no one answer and parenting differs from parent to parent. :
[right][snapback]785663[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]I agree. But I thought we were speaking in the context of such resteraunts and public places that do require it. Mass and grocery stores are something different.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 11 2005, 09:50 AM']If my kids goal was TO leave, we left, and they came straight home to sit in the corner while the rest of us ate pizza.
My kids never misbehaved in church, not even as babies.
[right][snapback]785674[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
i like Cmom.


totally going to remember that when the time comes.

[jasJis]

[quote name='socalscout' date='Nov 11 2005, 09:42 AM']Not if their goal [i]is [/i]to leave. Mass is a perfect example. We sit at the pews/chairs then 15 minutes in, my 2 year old starts to scream. We now go to the vestibule where we spend another 15 minutes then he starts to get upset because he wants to leave the building altogether. Well that is where I draw the line and he can scream his little head off for all I care because I am not leaving Mass. I will not reinforce that behavior or set that example.

Side note: I was at a Mass where I had to bring my child in the vestibule and the monsignor, who was not saying Mass at the time, told me I should be ashamed for pulling him out of God's choir aka the other screaming children in the pews.  He is a great guy.
[right][snapback]785667[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]Hold up there, skippy. Let me share with you what my Mom did w/ 6 kids, and what I and my siblings have done w/ our kids who are now teens.

First off, kids are different. Some kids cannot behave in Church when they are too young. 2 is borderline. We would go to Church in shifts. One parent would stay home w/ the brats, while the other went with the angels. Then the other parent would go to church alone. (bonus!) Next week, we would switch.

Sometimes, the child just wants your attentinon and it's fine to be with you in the vestible. There has to be negative and positive reinforcement. The negative is not going out w/ the big kids or the positive getting a special treat when they come home. It's raising kids, not rocket science.

I'm not sure about the monsignor. Some kids have slip ups and aren't perfect, but try. Some kids are constant noise machines and should not be there. If a kid is occaisionally a disruption, then it's fine, bring 'em. If it's a regular thing, then they probably aren't ready to behave yet and there is no need torturing yourself, the kid, and the rest of the congregation.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='Nov 10 2005, 03:34 PM']so what do you guys think? is it fair for a restaurant to ask parents to make sure their children behave in a restaurant? sometimes, in a restaurant, i see parents letting their children be total brats and it does disrupt a person's dining experience. but i dunno
[right][snapback]785004[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

It's not only fair, it's their duty to other patrons. If a child is behaving badly (and we all define those terms differently, I'm afraid), then the owner/manager must ask the parents to do something.

If I saw a sign like that on the door, I'd point it out to my children and use it as a reminder. I'm sure that was the intention. If you want to let your kid climb around like Batman at every restaurant he dines in, you should limit your dining out experiences to Chuck E. coagulated milk.

[homeschoolmom]

...on the other hand... people without children have to bend a little, too. I've gotten "looks" from people who see we [i]have[/i] children with us (they hadn't even DONE anything)

Now, my kids aren't perfect, but I tend to pull the reigns in pretty tightly. However, I remember one time... when HSdaughter was, oh, about ten months old. It was Valentines Day. HSdad, daughter and I went to a medium-nice restaurant. We went early so that we would avoid the later couples going out. It was not crowded and we were seated off by ourselves. HSdaughter was doing really nicely... She was coloring on her paper placemat or something. Not even making any noise.

A couple was seat near us. And the woman gave me "the look" .... Later in the meal, HSdaughter dropped her crayons or something and the woman said (loud enough for us to hear her) "Thank GOD for birth control." She was so rude. I'll never forget that and it was nine years ago.

People can't expect children, especially toddlers, to be silent.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='socalscout' date='Nov 10 2005, 08:03 PM']Here is clue to those who don't have kids.

Discipline is not the end all be all cure all pill for everything children.

If a child is crying and screaming their heads off in a public place it is because the child[i] is[/i] being disciplined. Children who get everything they want don't have a need to cry and scream.

This is a public service announcement from me a father of two screaming monkeys who are going to bed in an hour. :
[right][snapback]785228[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Yeah, I think people tend to forget this truth... Discipline is noisy...

[Lil Red]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Nov 11 2005, 02:24 PM']Now, my kids aren't perfect, but I tend to pull the reigns in pretty tightly. However, I remember one time... when HSdaughter was, oh, about ten months old. It was Valentines Day. HSdad, daughter and I went to a medium-nice restaurant. We went early so that we would avoid the later couples going out. It was not crowded and we were seated off by ourselves. HSdaughter was doing really nicely... She was coloring on her paper placemat or something. Not even making any noise.

A couple was seat near us. And the woman gave me "the look" .... Later in the meal, HSdaughter dropped her crayons or something and the woman said (loud enough for us to hear her) "Thank GOD for birth control."  She was so rude. I'll never forget that and it was nine years ago.

People can't expect children, especially toddlers, to be silent.
[right][snapback]785939[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
so do you say anything to people like that? if so, what?

[homeschoolmom]

I was so taken aback, we said nothing.

We just thanked God that we didn't think like she did.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Nov 11 2005, 04:24 PM']...on the other hand... people without children have to bend a little, too. I've gotten "looks" from people who see we [i]have[/i] children with us (they hadn't even DONE anything)

Now, my kids aren't perfect, but I tend to pull the reigns in pretty tightly. However, I remember one time... when HSdaughter was, oh, about ten months old. It was Valentines Day. HSdad, daughter and I went to a medium-nice restaurant. We went early so that we would avoid the later couples going out. It was not crowded and we were seated off by ourselves. HSdaughter was doing really nicely... She was coloring on her paper placemat or something. Not even making any noise.

A couple was seat near us. And the woman gave me "the look" .... Later in the meal, HSdaughter dropped her crayons or something and the woman said (loud enough for us to hear her) "Thank GOD for birth control."  She was so rude. I'll never forget that and it was nine years ago.

People can't expect children, especially toddlers, to be silent.
[right][snapback]785939[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

My first response would have been to say" pity your mother didn't think of it".

[Lil Red]

oh snap, cmom!

[zealousdefender]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 11 2005, 10:50 AM']If my kids goal was TO leave, we left, and they came straight home to sit in the corner while the rest of us ate pizza.
My kids never misbehaved in church, not even as babies.
[right][snapback]785674[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Thank God for parents who know the value of discipline, and how to apply it wisely. CMom knows how to demonstrate to her children exactly who is running things. Yeah, OK. You acted up and so we came home. Now here are the consequences. And I'll bet that's why they never acted up in church. I'll bet at some point you made it quite clear that would have an unpleasant outcome.

Good for you. And your children will be much better adults for it. So many parents seem to be trying to treat their children as equals, or as "little adults." Children neither want nor need this -- believe it or not they want discipline. They want to know that somebody [i][b]is[/b][/i] running things. I think it gives them a sense of security.

[Captain_Fantastic]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='Nov 10 2005, 04:34 PM']so what do you guys think? is it fair for a restaurant to ask parents to make sure their children behave in a restaurant? sometimes, in a restaurant, i see parents letting their children be total brats and it does disrupt a person's dining experience. [/quote]

Restuarants are privately owned, and the owners can make any rules they like.

Diane