Letter from a disgruntled person on e-mail list...

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Nov 11 2005, 11:45 AM']I like the new shirts. But I think "Vatican Ninja" would be cooler than "Catholic Ninja".
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I happen to agree.

[Dust's Sister]

[quote name='inDEED' date='Nov 11 2005, 02:22 AM']I think that the writer has a very valid point.

How do we know that our Pope is fresh and clean? If I wear a shirt that says I'm a Catholic ninja - and I'm not - aren't I guilty of deception? (Of course, this doesn't ring true for Kilroy) And last but not least - I KNOW that I'm a baller - but I also KNOW that there are some posters on here that are definitely NOT ballers (dUSt included).

So in response to his letter - I agree.
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You know what, you could also use different intrepretations of these words too, just like people always interpet the bible wrong, so if you interpret "Catholic Ninja" literally as a Catholic NINJA, then you would be lieing about yourself, but if you say the word Ninja, meaning Catholic Ninja, the way I look at it as: I am a Catholic Warrier, I stand up for my Faith, I kick butt doing it (meaning showing that our points make sense and what not, you know what I mean? Like winning a debate, would be an example of "Catholic Ninja''.... Catholic Fighter, Catholic Winner..... So if you take Ninja with today's culter you wouldn't really be guilty of deception if you put it that way....

Baller - I've always put that word as someone who has alot of money, there are rap songs that always talk about being a "big baller".. or "big balla".. meaning, I got so much money it's crazy, but when you put "Catholic Baller" together... that would mean that you are Big on Catholicism, big on your FAITH, big in everything that you do in being a Catholic, you are a Catholic Baller!

As for Krunk -- I've always put that would as "Crazy"... and you know when you get drunk you get crazy and happy and easy... So instead of getting drunk to be "cool and crazy".. You are CATHOLIC.. if you are a Krunk Catholic.. then you are a COOL Catholic! you a CRAZY CATHOLIC (crazy meaning really cool Catholic).....

So like Dust said we are trying to get the attention of young people today, and young people today uses words like "krunk" and "baller"

and I don't know if many of you know this but "So Fresh and So Clean" is off a major hit of a rap song by outkast, and I think that was cool to show that the pope is "So Fresh and so Clean".. because really, he is!

[Socrates]

I think the guy did have a point.
The t-shirts didn't offend me or anything - but I did find them almost embarrassingly silly and stupid, rather than funny or cool.
They seem like basically meaningless juxtapositions of words to make Catholicism look "cool." (What the @#!$ is a "Catholic Ninja?" And what does being "Krunk" have to do with being Catholic?)

And the slogan "B16 - So fresh and clean!" sounds like it's advertising some kind of detergent!

I think Phatmass and its mission are praiseworthy, and I intend no disrespect to Dust or others, but some things work and others don't. These shirt slogans, in my opinion, miss rather than hit.
And it might be worth considering that for a lot of people, even among the "youth," the whole rap/hip-hop thing is more of a put-off than a draw. From my experience on Phatmass, it seems that, while there is a solid core of "Catholic rappers," Phatmass has really outgrown this niche. It seems the majority of posters here could care less about or even despise the entire "hip-hop" culture.
I certainly was not drawn into this site by the hip-hop trappings, but became interested when I saw the debate table, and discussions of issues that interest me. I suspect that many, like myself, are phatmassers in spite of, not because of the hip-hop associations.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 11 2005, 09:06 PM']They seem like basically meaningless juxtapositions of words to make Catholicism look "cool."  (What the @#!$ is a "Catholic Ninja?"  And what does being "Krunk" have to do with being Catholic?)
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Personally, I think that they're just the opposite. They remind me of someone's verse on Massmatics, "Catholics and hip hop/ Now who woulda thought?"

Take the "Catholic Ninja" one. It's an obvious projection of humor. No, we're not ninjas. But when you think about Catholic Ninjas, it's funny, even though we're not ninjas. "Krunk Catholic" has the same effect in the context of "not hip hop". It's just funny to think of Krunk Catholics. It's just funny to think of Catholic hip hop, period. And I say that as a fan.

When I see these shirts, I don't think, "Look, Christians trying to be all hardcore hip hop gimmicky". I think, "Look, Christians with a sense of humor". The shirts almost make fun of ourselves.

My .02 cents.

[quote]I certainly was not drawn into this site by the hip-hop trappings, but became interested when I saw the debate table, and discussions of issues that interest me. I suspect that many, like myself, are phatmassers in spite of, not because of the hip-hop associations.[/quote]

Of course, everyone has their own likes and dislikes. But, personally, I don't think I would have joined Phatmass if it wasn't for the music. There are so many other places on the web to go. Phatmass was the only place you could find Catholic hip hop. Now that I'm here, obviously, I like it for the phorum and everything else. But I wouldn't have wanted to get involved in the phorum if there was no hip hop connection. I can talk apologetics and theology anywhere. Where alse can I talk about Catholic hip hop, and hip hop in general with other Catholics?

Edited November 12, 2005 by Era Might

[Dust's Sister]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Nov 11 2005, 08:16 PM']
My .02 cents.
Of course, everyone has their own likes and dislikes. But, personally, I don't think I would have joined Phatmass if it wasn't for the music. There are so many other places on the web to go. Phatmass was the only place you could find Catholic hip hop. Now that I'm here, obviously, I like it for the phorum and everything else. But I wouldn't have wanted to get involved in the phorum if there was no hip hop connection. I can talk apologetics and theology anywhere. Where alse can I talk about Catholic hip hop, and hip hop in general with other Catholics?
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thank U! this is part of the reason why I think my brother named the site "Phatmass".

[God Conquers]

The shirts serve the highest purpose of all: the Glory of God

What you say?

How you say?

Anyone wearing these shirts (well most likely only anyone who's on/frequents phatmass) is a ridiculously awesome Catholic, who when engaged in a conversation will likely turn matters to those of faith.

The shirts bring conversation.

They are ridiculously hilarious. They are well-made. They for the most part make almost no sense while at the same time referencing both current trends and the Catolic faith.

Bottom line: people are gonna ask about them.

This is where the Glory of God bit comes in:

You tell them.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Nov 11 2005, 10:22 AM']I will say that phatmass is the first place I've ever seen/heard/read the word "krunk" in my entire life. 
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Same here.
but I can't think up an acronym for it like "phat" has. hmmm

[philothea]

I think, also, it wouldn't be a bad idea to trust the judgement of the guy who has managed to create a wildly popular Catholic forum.

No, they might not be the t-shirts I'd design. But then I'm sure no one (including me) would go to [i]my[/i] forum. Er, if I had one.

You're a good guy, Socrates, but I am sure you realize that PR is not your greatest talent.

[Dust's Sister]

Krunk

Knowledge Rejoices United Nations Kingdom?

I don't know, don't ask me.. lol

[missionseeker]

Know Rejoice Understand something something?

[Kilroy the Ninja]

but I am a Catholic Ninja.


semi-retired.



Ya'll don't know just how much I really want one of those shirts.... I just don't think it's in any of the cards right now. (credit cards that is).


I liked all of them, especially B16. The krunk one's ok, it's just not a word I use.

I think dUSt had some great points about not trying to change the mass, etc.

Rock on dUSt!

[StatingTheObvious]

i was disgruntled by the e-mail. i got 2 e-mails from dust. 1 to suspend me and 1 to buy a tee shirt. i'll respond to his e-mail when he responds to mine. :

[jmjtina]

and who is our target audience?

Teenagers.

When working and trying to evangelize teens, you HAVE to think outside the bun. (but not the same standard for the Mass, obviously)

A teenager and us (adults) will approach the tees different. And it's not like the tees are the sole thing phatmass has to offer. I've had ppl come up to me and they leave with the phatmass web address to find out more. Kids wear the tees ALL the time. Why? to be funny. to be different. To cause people to ASK them about it.

And you can tell by how fast they sell at the youth conferences.

I mean really? Hip-hop? Debate table? More and more on the faith and so many sources on the teachings of the Church and dialoge about it with other faithful Catholics?

Brilliant.

It's cooler than your grandpa's suspenders.

[Cam42]

dUSt,

While I respect this site immensely, the statement that the writer makes:

[quote name='anon']My first concern was with the t-shirt design containing the words: "Krunk Catholic" on it. I wish to mention that where I come from (St. Louis, MO), the word, "krunk" is a clever substitute for saying, "crazy drunk." I asked my roomate who is from Kansas City, KS and it apparently means the same thing there. I'm not sure what message the shirt was intended to display, but knowing the regional cultural dual- meaning behind the phrase, I would be confused and offended by such a rediculous and perverse representation of the Catholic faith. I feel that PM should have taken more consideration before printing that one.[/quote]

Is consistent with my understanding of the term Krunk. It also is how it is understood by the online editors of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krunk"]Wikipedia[/url].

If there is any ambiguity, I would think that prudence would dictate that it should be omitted, for the sake of overall decency. If one person misinterprets, isn't that one too many?

[quote name='anon']I feel that a shirt that says "B-16 so fresh and so clean" doesn't quite give Pope Benedict XVI his due. A man of his spirituality and vocation deserves a higher level of respect in all things. The shirt vaguely if at all attributes any spirituality or works exclusively to Pope Benedcit nor does it promote a high level of respect for him. Perhaps something that mentions his effect on the Church in a creative manner would have been more appropriate.[/quote]

I think that most know that I agree with this idea. I am not a fan of shortening the name of the Holy Father. He does deserve every ounce of respect and to (inadvertantly) compare him to a vehicle of war, may not be the best message. Again, misinterpretations could be had.

I suppose that equating a Catholic with a lethal assassin could be fun, but again, if one person misinterprets, isn't that one too many?

I will reserve any type of criticism of the last, because I am not part of the NBA/basketball scene, so the term "baller" doesn't really exist in my world.

Now, if you would have made a couple of t-shirts that had, crucifixes, or pierced hearts, or scourgings on them could be just as effective for shock value, and be more appropriate.

Again, dUSt, I respect the site, but I don't want any misinterpretations. I feel that the t's as they stand could do just that. Just my thoughts.

God Bless....

[Era Might]

[quote]Blood of Christ inebriate me

--Anima Christi prayer[/quote]



So the Church tells us to get KRUNK with the Blood of Christ.



We better not pray the Anima Christ anymore. Someone might think it's ok to get drunk off the Sacramental wine.

Edited November 13, 2005 by Era Might

[Cam42]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Nov 13 2005, 03:02 PM']

So the Church tells us to get KRUNK with the Blood of Christ.



We better not pray the Anima Christ anymore. Someone might think it's ok to get drunk off the Sacramental wine. 
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And that is a real concern. At least in catechizing, I have to have that exact conversation with most teens. Hmmmmm......

However, the context in which the prayer is prayed is not anywhere near the same as wearing a Krunk t-shirt, now is it?

[Ang3l]

First, the rap issue did bring me to this site...cause I am catholic and a rapper...

Second "Krunk" is not the same as "Crunk"..."Krunk" is the spelling that this site use to make to point that you got to get hype for Catholic Church...

"Crunk" is the orginal spelling which means "Crazy Drunk"...See...the C is in place of the D in Drunk...hence the spelling of Crunk and its association...

I've been hearin' "Crunk" since I was about 8 or 9 since I life in the South...and all songs/video/media/etc...use the "C" spelling version, because "Krunk" to them doesn't mean anything...

[Era Might]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Nov 13 2005, 04:46 PM']And that is a real concern.  At least in catechizing, I have to have that exact conversation with most teens.  Hmmmmm......

However, the context in which the prayer is prayed is not anywhere near the same as wearing a Krunk t-shirt, now is it?
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So we can't pray the Anima Christi in front of non-Catholics?

I heard Al Jefferson (Celtics forward) not too long ago say in a press conference that the crowd was "krunk". Were there drunks in the crowd? Sure. Is that what he meant, that the crowd was drunk? No. He just meant the crowd was enthusiastic.

Edited November 13, 2005 by Era Might

[DAF]

honestly i don't really see what the big deal is. He sounded very polite in expressing his concerns. And his concerns are not outrageous.
That's all I have to say about that.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Nov 13 2005, 04:39 PM']So we can't pray the Anima Christi in front of non-Catholics? 

I heard Al Jefferson (Celtics forward) not too long ago say in a press conference that the crowd was "krunk". Were there drunks in the crowd? Sure. Is that what he meant, that the crowd was drunk? No. He just meant the crowd was enthusiastic.
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That makes no sense whatsoever.

Who said we can't pray the Anima Christi? Left Field.