Rammstein's new album

[inDEED]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Nov 29 2005, 07:40 AM']Rammstein is great (maybe not their message or the way in which it is presented, though). I don't speak German and I don't have much of a desire to learn the translations of their lyrics. I know some of it seems pretty bad. But the music is GREAT! And as Catholics, we can appreciate art for art's sake, and the beauty of anyone and anything. We obviously take issue with any objective falsehoods or evils, but we can still appreciate the ways in which even the falsehoods or evils are expressed, if that makes any sense. Both JP2 and B16 advocate this position in their writings...

So the new CD isn't as good, huh? That smells of elderberries...my favorite is Mutter. Reise Reise had some good songs on it, though.

P.S. - Though I have no idea what "Mutter"'s lyrics translate to, for some reason it translates in my head as being against abortion. Don't ask me!
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Did you not see Fab's post?

Oh, I get it - you mean to say, "horrible" - but it came out as "great". It's all good, no worries.

[Snarf]

All the members are straight, I think they've all been married in fact. The video in question is Bück Dich, and the phallus is fake. There is no intercourse, just charading the act. It's actually a sad song about coming to terms with one's homosexuality and questioning his identity. I'd post the English lyrics, but even allegorically they're not quite appropriate for this board.

And the thing about the horse, he sings "I was in the mood for large animals, but I'm not in the mood to try it out".

[philothea]

Someday I will probably write an essay about the industrial music genre, and how to undersand it, and why the songs are not really as shocking as the surface lyrics may seem.

I've been thinking about it for years.

[TheOliverOrder88]

[quote name='philothea' date='Nov 30 2005, 01:17 AM']Someday I will probably write an essay about the industrial music genre, and how to undersand it, and why the songs are not really as shocking as the surface lyrics may seem.

I've been thinking about it for years.
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Please enlighten us. I am a lover of industrial music but I can never get past the lyrics. Static-X, Nine Inch Nails, and even Rammstein were once acouple of my favorite bands, now I am dismayed.



Does anyone remember (or even know) the industrial feel to ZAO's Self-Titled, something I am looking for...

[philothea]

[quote name='TheOliverOrder88' date='Nov 30 2005, 01:27 AM']Please enlighten us. I am a lover of industrial music but I can never get past the lyrics. Static-X, Nine Inch Nails, and even Rammstein were once acouple of my favorite bands, now I am dismayed.


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If it was that simple I'd have written it already!

The quickie version is that the "meaning" of the song is not the lyrics, though the lyrics are a metaphor for the meaning.

The lyrics have three functions, at least. (1) to scare away anyone who only looks at the surface, (2) to shock the listener into a new mode of thinking, and (3) to reveal the underlying message -- which is not simple or obvious. Generally the message is more an emotion than an intellectual concept, which is not surprising, since we are talking about music.

Maybe Snarf will have more to add.

[quote name='TheOliverOrder88' date='Nov 30 2005, 01:27 AM']Does anyone remember (or even know) the industrial feel to ZAO's Self-Titled, something I am looking for...
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Hmm. Just listened to some samples at iTunes, and nothing occurs to me. You might want to look at some of the iMixes that include ZAO. Or put them into Pandora.com and see what else comes up.

[Dreamweaver]

I too would be interested in reading the industrial lyrics essay when its completed. I like industrial music, I like Rammstein, smells of elderberries that their new album isn't as good.

[Snarf]

Well, Rammstein talks about incest a great deal in their first two albums. They do so by never coming out and saying "incest is bad", but they make the lyrics as tragic as possible and counterpoint it with emotionally staggering music to demonstrate clearly that they're against sexual abuse.

In "Kuss Mich", "Rein, Raus", "Keine Lust", and probably others, they talk about sexual escapades. However, the music combined with the verbiage leaves the listener with the image of emptiness and lack of gratification that comes with living a hedonistic lifestyle.

In songs like "Klavier", "Du Riechst so Gut", "Weißes Fleisch" and "Mein Teil", they explore literal insanity. They never persecute the insane, but try to empathize without negating the dark side of obsession, angst, murder, or even cannibalism.

In short, I think what scares people away from Rammstein is not the fact that they're unafraid to stand up for moral causes, but that they're unafraid to do so while making fun of themselves for doing it. They're capable of scathing social satire or very insightful explorations of perversions of the mind (homosexuality, pedophilia, incest, homicide, cannibalism, beastiality... the list goes on) but they never present themselves as moral crusaders. Why? Because they're not, and that would set them up for the label of hypocristy. Rather, they are six guys that make amazing music, and in the process write what they think will make the world a better place for their children.

One relevant song I have in mind is "Hallelujah", which talks about a pedophile priest. The song was released shortly before the priest epidemic of 2001, and I suppose that had the media picked up earlier they would have not publicized it as much. (In fact, it was on a soundtrack and none of their standard albums.) Do they paint the priest as being evil? No, they paint him as being a struggling human being.

I'll post some lyrics:

He is religious and very sensitive
on his wall is a picture of the Lord
he wipes the spots from the Bible
he gladly distributes the Communion

He loves the boys in the choir
they keep their souls pure
but the tenor worries him
so he must be the closest to him *
on his nightstand, quiet and wordless
a picture of the Lord
he slowly turns it around

When the church clock strikes twice
hallelujah
he folds his hands for prayer
hallelujah
he has remained without a wife
hallelujah
so he must love his neighbor *
hallelujah

The young man is allowed to stay with him
the sin nests above the leg
so he gladly helps to exorcize it
to music and candlelight

When the church clock strikes twice
hallelujah
he folds his hands for prayer
hallelujah
he has remained without a wife
hallelujah
so he must love his neighbor *
hallelujah

When the church clock strikes twice
hallelujah
he takes the boy into his prayers
hallelujah
he is the true Christian
hallelujah
and knows what charity is *
hallelujah

Turn around slowly
Turn around

(I'm too lazy to post my own translations, these are from www.herzeleid.org)

[Socrates]

[quote name='Snarf' date='Nov 30 2005, 12:14 PM']Well, Rammstein talks about incest a great deal in their first two albums.  They do so by never coming out and saying "incest is bad", but they make the lyrics as tragic as possible and counterpoint it with emotionally staggering music to demonstrate clearly that they're against sexual abuse.

In "Kuss Mich", "Rein, Raus", "Keine Lust", and probably others, they talk about sexual escapades.  However, the music combined with the verbiage leaves the listener with the image of emptiness and lack of gratification that comes with living a hedonistic lifestyle.

In songs like "Klavier", "Du Riechst so Gut", "Weißes Fleisch" and "Mein Teil", they explore literal insanity.  They never persecute the insane, but try to empathize without negating the dark side of obsession, angst, murder, or even cannibalism.

In short, I think what scares people away from Rammstein is not the fact that they're unafraid to stand up for moral causes, but that they're unafraid to do so while making fun of themselves for doing it.  They're capable of scathing social satire or very insightful explorations of perversions of the mind (homosexuality, pedophilia, incest, homicide, cannibalism, beastiality... the list goes on) but they never present themselves as moral crusaders.  Why?  Because they're not, and that would set them up for the label of hypocristy.  Rather, they are six guys that make amazing music, and in the process write what they think will make the world a better place for their children.

One relevant song I have in mind is "Hallelujah", which talks about a pedophile priest.  The song was released shortly before the priest epidemic of 2001, and I suppose that had the media picked up earlier they would have not publicized it as much.  (In fact, it was on a soundtrack and none of their standard albums.)  Do they paint the priest as being evil?  No, they paint him as being a struggling human being.

I'll post some lyrics:

He is religious and very sensitive
on his wall is a picture of the Lord
he wipes the spots from the Bible
he gladly distributes the Communion

He loves the boys in the choir
they keep their souls pure
but the tenor worries him
so he must be the closest to him *
on his nightstand, quiet and wordless
a picture of the Lord
he slowly turns it around

When the church clock strikes twice
hallelujah
he folds his hands for prayer
hallelujah
he has remained without a wife
hallelujah
so he must love his neighbor *
hallelujah

The young man is allowed to stay with him
the sin nests above the leg
so he gladly helps to exorcize it
to music and candlelight

When the church clock strikes twice
hallelujah
he folds his hands for prayer
hallelujah
he has remained without a wife
hallelujah
so he must love his neighbor *
hallelujah

When the church clock strikes twice
hallelujah
he takes the boy into his prayers
hallelujah
he is the true Christian
hallelujah
and knows what charity is *
hallelujah

Turn around slowly
Turn around

(I'm too lazy to post my own translations, these are from www.herzeleid.org)
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Everyone who knows me will know that I am not exactly a prude when it comes to art, music, etc., but it should seem obvious to anyone with a lick of comon decency that something is seriously screwed up with these guys. (I personally know very little about the band - I'm just going from what you all have written.)

I should ask, what is the point of singing about various sexual perversions and other sick pathologies, even if it they are not "in favor of " these things??

Singing songs which are social satire or commentary attacking real or perceived public evils such as injustice, war, corruption, materialism, are one thing.
But is there really any pressing need to perform songs about things like incest, bestiality, and cannibalism? Seriously, guys!
Do these things really need to be spoken out about publicly, or be "better understood"? (As if these were publicly-accepted things which needed to be publicly protested) Is anyone any better for having these things in their heads? Is this doing society a service or helping "make the world a better place for their children"?
Is there any good reason for stunts like on-stage sodomy (real or fake)?
Or is this just sensationalistic shock-schlock?

And the song you quoted just sounds like standard anti-Catholic bilge, blaming homosexual rape of boys on the Church's standards of priestly celibacy. ("he has remained without a wife so he must love his neighbor") As has been shown numerous times, this idea is pure nonsense! The whole song seems to have an attitude of mocking contempt for the Christian religion.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Socrates

[philothea]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 30 2005, 08:08 PM']Everyone who knows me will know that I am not exactly a prude when it comes to art, music, etc., but it should seem obvious to anyone with a lick of comon decency that something is seriously screwed up with these guys.  (I personally know very little about the band - I'm just going from what you all have written.)
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FWIW, I can't handle Rammstein anymore myself. Once I read the translated lyrics on the one CD I bought... just... ewww.

Edited December 1, 2005 by philothea

[Ziggamafu]

Well...IF I was fluent in German, I might not be able to stomach the lyrics.

For instance, I also love TOOL and A Perfect Circle. But APC especially has a couple of blasphemously hurtful and offensive songs that I just can't listen to ("Judith", for one). But if I didn't understand those words every time they were sung I would LOVE the tune. You see, I otherwise appreciate the beauty (that expresses the message).

[TheOliverOrder88]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Dec 1 2005, 10:30 PM']Well...IF I was fluent in German, I might not be able to stomach the lyrics.

For instance, I also love TOOL and A Perfect Circle. But APC especially has a couple of blasphemously hurtful and offensive songs that I just can't listen to ("Judith", for one). But if I didn't understand those words every time they were sung I would LOVE the tune. You see, I otherwise appreciate the beauty (that expresses the message).
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Tool has acouple of those hurtful and offensive songs that no should ever listen to.

Not trying to judge you are anything, but I think Tool is the worst of the worst. Trying reading the lyrics to "Prison Sex" or "Eulogy" or eh might even "Opiate" for that matter. Don't get wrong Tool makes good music, but I can't make it a fair trade with those lyrics.

[Snarf]

As for incest, I once had a German professor who ranted about mid-20th German literature being obsessed with it. I personally didn't grow up in Germany, so I don't know how much of a problem it really is. For reference, the first song is about fish, so the direct incestual remarks are probably allegorical for just being obsessed with sex in general. And no, they don't say it's a good thing. In another song they talk about a man who rapes his daughter, and they say "doch nur ein tier" (just an animal). The other song is about a girl who abuses her brother, and the music is dark and quite scary.

As for the song about the priest, I don't see it as an attack against the Church. It'd be different, like I said, if the song had been made after the onslaught of allegations in the US, but it wasn't. And the line "he must love his neighbor" is actually innocuous, since the verb for loving one's neighbor which they use is "nächstelieben", which is more literally "to do charity". Obviously they were going for a play on words, but in German it's far from being inflammatory.

The thing about that song is that priestly pedophilia does exist, so you cannot blame them for bringing it up. The media profits from slandering the priesthood as a whole because of this, but this is not what Rammstein does. They explore the question, and make the guilty priests human by having human desires. That's a recurring theme in their music, that desire is a dark element to human existence. To think that they couldn't have very easily been much more volatile toward the subject is quite naive.

The cannibalism song was not pulled out of nowhere as shock for shock's sake, it was written in retaliation to the Armin Meiwes cannibalism case. The song reflects not only depravity of mental abberation, but it grounds it in sociological disorder. Hence, "A cry will raise to heaven, cutting itself through crowds of angels. From behind the clouds falls feathery flesh, upon my childhood--screaming."

Most of Rammstein's songs are simply poems that have nothing to do with morality or psychology. One can ignore their questionable songs, which is quite fine and easy, and still enjoy the band's work as a whole. I was in love with one of their songs for a long time before I figured out that it was about a man who dies from heroin overdose. I've been to two of their concerts and personally met them back in 2001.

They're not even my favorite band, just the one that gets the most attention and riles people up the most.

[Ziggamafu]

Maynard is so lost...you can almost hear the pain in his voice when he sings his frustration out at God. It seems he's one of those cases where he resents God for something and so attacks him in a pathetic way...but MAN is his music AWESOME.

[Snarf]

I haven't listened to Tool at length, but I enjoy their music in general. I once read a quote by Maynard saying "I didn't say that I hate God, I said that I hate your god".

The tendency of rock bands is to see religion not as a process, but an historical institution. One bad act in history defiles everything in the name of "our" God. And, you must admit, there have been lots of bad acts. Some of which even perpetrated by Catholics.

In the thread of "religious lyrics by non-religious bands", for example, I posted those of NIN's song "Heresy". In it, Reznor seems to admit that there is an existent God. However, he says "[b]Your[/b] God is dead" as the main refrain.

I've been meaning to get into Bad Religion, as the singer is extremely well-educated (he's a lecturer in some Ivy League school), and he tends to have lots to say on such matters. What I've heard of them so far was respectable, but I really don't know yet.

And yes, I've read an article by him (I forget his name) explaining the name as not saying that all religion is bad, and he affirmed the contrary. He explained it as reflecting a state of mind. Now that I'm reading Sartre, I wonder if it parallels the existential phenomenon of "mauvais foi".