What apologetics or saints books are good for...

[Ziggamafu]

My mother-in-law is a Charismatic Protestant that thinks that since the vast majority of Catholics don't throw their hands up, hoot, hollar, and get slain in the spirit during worship, that the vast majority of the Church must not have a relationship with the Holy Spirit.

Do you know of some writings of the saints and some contemporary apologetics that would prove her wrong?

[christaddict]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Nov 21 2005, 08:18 PM']My mother-in-law is a Charismatic Protestant that thinks that since the vast majority of Catholics don't throw their hands up, hoot, hollar, and get slain in the spirit during worship, that the vast majority of the Church must not have a relationship with the Holy Spirit.

Do you know of some writings of the saints and some contemporary apologetics that would prove her wrong?
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Charismatic movement is 'happening' in the Catholic community ... as far as India is concerned.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='christaddict' date='Nov 21 2005, 07:53 AM']Charismatic movement is 'happening' in the Catholic community ... as far as India is concerned.
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It is in the States too. Look into the CCR (Catholic Charismatic Renewal). I think it started 68 or so.

Anyway...that is a fallacy that because one does not get slain that one does not have a relationship w/ the Holy Spirit. You shall know them by their fruit (joy, peace, good works, etc...) than by external signs such as raising hands.

[phatcatholic]

good call nutty

also, zigga, you should explain to your mother what really happens during the mass, how the Spirit is in fact very much at work throughout the mass and how the mass is a celebration of men filled w/ the Spirit of the Lord.

[Ziggamafu]

she gets that. she reads every catholic book i give her and sometimes even takes notes. so far the books she's read are: lamb's supper, swear to god, a father who keeps his promises, why do catholics genuflect, one holy catholic and apostolic, hail holy queen, first comes love, fundamentals of the faith...can't think of any more, that might be all of them.

i actually go to a very charismatic parish. but it really frustrates me that she's borderline one of those people that says if you're not speaking in tongues you must not know the Holy Spirit. since she reads anything i give her, i would like to know of some material that dismantles that idea...

[Paphnutius]

Perhaps some of the mystics then...St. John of the Cross (Dark Night of the Soul) or St. Theres of Liseux (sp?)

If that does not help the NCCB (that is the National Conference of Catholic Bishop, the former USCCB) put out a document in the '70's that discussed some of this. I would really recommend looking it up. I will look for the title, but I would imagine it is on the website. Something along the lines of: Statement on the CCR or something.

You could also search the web for material by the CCR and that should be helpful.

If nothing else fall back on the Bible. The gifts of the Holy Spirit here are just that, gifts. They are charisms that are given to be used to build up the kingdom of God, and lest we forget "Some are givn as apostiles, some as disciples, and still others as teachers." Not everyone has the same role to play in the Body of Christ, so not all will have the same gifts (tongues, healing, etc...) THe Holy Spirit gives as He deems fit so :

Edited November 22, 2005 by Paphnutius

[Paladin]

What about mentioning a some stigmatics? If people who literally suffer as Christ suffered don't have the Holy Spirit, who does?

[phatcatholic]

here's some info on the Catholic Charismatic Movement in the Church:
[url="http://religion-cults.com/spirit/"]http://religion-cults.com/spirit/[/url]

[Era Might]

"Evangelical Is Not Enough" by Thomas Howard makes the case for Liturgical worship. He actually wrote it while still an Anglican. There's a note at the end of the book explaining that he was converting to the Catholic Church.

[phatcatholic]

yea, make sure that, if you decide to emphasize the charistmatic movement in the church, that you don't accidentally imply that the Spirit is only moving in that movement, and not also in the liturgical worship of the Church. you don't even need to emphasize the charistmatic movement in order to prove that the Spirit is present and moving in the mass and in the every-day life and experience of the Catholic. but, since the charismatic movement is something she will probably identify with, it may be helpful to introduce her to it.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Paladin' date='Nov 22 2005, 10:14 AM']What about mentioning a some stigmatics?  If people who literally suffer as Christ suffered don't have the Holy Spirit, who does?
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Whoa, you and I have very similar usernames.

[Guest Rick777]

st. faustinas diary? she seems to always be in ecstasy..