Side Altars

[the_rev]

Our parish has a main altar turned the way prescribed after the Second Vatican Council, but then we still have the old back altar, and two side altars under the Mary and Joseph Statue. Now our parish wants to take out the side two altars.

There is no use for them, since priests can now concelebrate (in Novus Ordo) so the side altars just take up space, etc.

I was wondering if there is any document or any text on this matter, saying that side altars are to be done away with.

What does the Pope think?

Thanks for your help in saving tradition as my parish is trying to modernized our Pre-Vatican built church. Blah!

In HIM,

Ed

[cmotherofpirl]

There is absolutely no reason to take them out whether you use them or not. Our cathedral {St Pauls Pittsburgh] still has them.

[jiyoung]

Side altars are beautiful, I think. There's no need to take them out.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='the_rev' date='Nov 24 2005, 02:04 PM']Our parish has a main altar turned the way prescribed after the Second Vatican Council, but then we still have the old back altar, and two side altars under the Mary and Joseph Statue.  Now our parish wants to take out the side two altars.

There is no use for them, since priests can now concelebrate (in Novus Ordo) so the side altars just take up space, etc.

I was wondering if there is any document or any text on this matter, saying that side altars are to be done away with.

What does the Pope think?

Thanks for your help in saving tradition as my parish is trying to modernized our Pre-Vatican built church.  Blah!

In HIM,

Ed
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What is their excuse for doing this?

[djc08]

It's not wrong as long as everything is handled properly. The only thing that is really the "Altar" is the Altar stone (if they have them since I don't think it is required anymore but I think that is after Vatican II) so that can easily be used in another altar. I'm sure your priest and the bishop of your diocese hasmade sure that they are doing what is proper. When we remodeled our church we took the Altar stone out of the old Altar and put it in the new one. The old Altar is in the basement of the church.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='djc08' date='Nov 24 2005, 10:04 PM']It's not wrong as long as everything is handled properly.  The only thing that is really the "Altar" is the Altar stone (if they have them since I don't think it is required anymore but I think that is after Vatican II) so that can easily be used in another altar.  I'm sure your priest and the bishop of your diocese hasmade sure that they are doing what is proper.  When we remodeled our church we took the Altar stone out of the old Altar and put it in the new one.  The old Altar is in the basement of the church.
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And its not really right to change a church for the sake of change.
Why fix what isn't broke?
Vatican II never called for the dismantling of the house of God.

[the_rev]

The priest says that there is no purpose in them since priests can concelebrate now, meaning priests don't need to say a sperete mass. I rose the argument that they were there to give glory to God's saints, (BVM and Joey) Our parish is St. Joseph, so the side altar under his statue is symbolic of a dedication as a parish.

Basically Fr. says that we dont' worship the saints and the like and that there not needed, and that they take up to much space.

He told me to find some proof of the need or existence of side altars in the church today, like documents, or what the Pope said, he said he can not go merely off feelings (even though 55% of the parish is against removing them)

So I need some modern day info on side altars and if they are still needed and why....

[cmotherofpirl]

Since he has no documentation telling him to remove them HE is only going on feelings.

Just becuase they are not being used is not a good enough reason to remove them.
The burden of proof is on him, since he cannot provide a valid reason FOR removing them. There is NO document telling him to tear the church
apart FOR the sake of change.

Edited November 25, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 25 2005, 08:46 AM'] There is NO document telling him to tear the church
apart FOR the sake of change.
[/quote]
I am not for removing the side altars either, but dont you think "tearing the church apart" is a bit much?

Rev, he has not mentioned any functional purpose for their removal? That would seem to be the only reason to do so. As Cmom said, simply because they are not used is no reason. He needs to have a positive reason, or hopes to accomplish something by this. It is sad when we start to loose the side altars because a lot of people do go to them to pray in DEVOTION to the saints, which is encouraged by the Church.

[cmotherofpirl]

[img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a5/cmom/BaptismalfontStPaul.jpg[/img]


[img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a5/cmom/MaryAltar-StPauls.jpg[/img]



[img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a5/cmom/StJosephsideStPaul.jpg[/img]



These are three of the altars at St Paul Cathedral, Pittsurgh. We arn't "using" them, so we should remove them????
Lil Red took these pics.

Edited November 25, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[Paphnutius]

I would say that they are serving a purpose of making the church beautiful and inspiring an atmospehere of awe and reverence.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 25 2005, 09:02 AM'][img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a5/cmom/BaptismalfontStPaul.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a5/cmom/MaryAltar-StPauls.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a5/cmom/StJosephsideStPaul.jpg[/img]
These are three of the altars at St Paul Cathedral, Pittsurgh. We arn't "using" them, so we should remove them????
Lil Red took these pics.
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those are awesome pics


and on topic:
rev, have you checked the CDD for documents on altars? if not you definitely should... i can do a search for you too.

[prose]

It sounds like your church needs more space for the congregation, which seems to me like that is a good thing.

Our Basilica still has side altars, but I understand your priest's reasoning. We ahve LOTS of room in our Basilica.

Somehow I also get the impression that yours aren't nearly as ornamental as the other altars posted (not that it matters).

What ever happened to respecting the priests decisions as regards to his parish? If he really feels that you need the room, then you probably need the room. I don't know a single priest that would take out an altar for asthetics.... It is certainly a cheaper option than physically expanding the building!

[Mickey's_Girl]

At my old parish our pastor uses the Marian side altar for saying daily mass, as there are fewer people and it is a smaller area. Seems very practical to me.

Also, keeping a connection with previous generations and old ways shows the continuity of the Church. Wiping out the past isn't something Catholics should be doing.

I like to pray in front of side altars, sometimes, too. Sometimes the statues above them can help me focus in a particular way.

Good luck!

MG

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='prose' date='Nov 25 2005, 01:12 PM']It sounds like your church needs more space for the congregation, which seems to me like that is a good thing. 

Our Basilica still has side altars, but I understand your priest's reasoning.  We ahve LOTS of room in our Basilica. 

Somehow I also get the impression that yours aren't nearly as ornamental as the other altars posted (not that it matters).

What ever happened to respecting the priests decisions as regards to his parish?  If he really feels that you need the room, then you probably need the room.  I don't know a single priest that would take out an altar for asthetics....  It is certainly a cheaper option than physically expanding the building!
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You expect the congregation to gather on the sides of the altar???

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 25 2005, 12:28 PM']You expect the congregation to gather on the sides of the altar???
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it seemed awkward to me too... and still it kind of does. there is a church close to where i live that i have visisted on several occasions that was BUILT with the congregation sitting on the sides of the altar.

[prose]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 25 2005, 12:28 PM']You expect the congregation to gather on the sides of the altar???
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Our Church gathers at sides of the altar...

I didn't think it was that weird...

Besides [b][i]I[/i][/b] don't expect people to gather anywhere, the priest at this congregation seems to expect that.

[Era Might]

Una Voce has this picture on its homepage:

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/eremite_85/agemian.jpg[/img]

I always thought it was weird that people were on the side of the altar, but I guess it's not unknown in Roman architecture.

I love side altars though. Even if they aren't used, they are beautiful devotional areas for the parish.

Edited November 25, 2005 by Era Might

[qfnol31]

[quote]He told me to find some proof of the need or existence of side altars in the church today, like documents, or what the Pope said, he said he can not go merely off feelings (even though 55% of the parish is against removing them)[/quote]

Every Titular See in Rome.

(e.g. St. Peter's, St. Paul's, St. Mary Major's etc.)

Might I add they still use those altars, I wanna say every day. I've seen St. Peter's at 7 in the morning when they do. It's awesome!

[Theoketos]

It is easy to fall into extacy at the sight of such beautiful side altars.