Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 please specify how many. GOd Bless, Sam
zabbazooey Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 what does it mean 'celebrated illicitly'?
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted November 28, 2005 Author Posted November 28, 2005 i think i worded that incorrectly. it sounds a little weird. basically an illict mass. one not celebrated according to the rubrics of the mass, or a mass celebrated by a group like the SSPX.
cmotherofpirl Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Nov 27 2005, 11:11 PM']i think i worded that incorrectly. it sounds a little weird. basically an illict mass. one not celebrated according to the rubrics of the mass, or a mass celebrated by a group like the SSPX. [right][snapback]802073[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Not following the rubrics doesn't not always make an illicit Mass. It depends on what rules are broken. I would never attend an SSPX Mass.
zabbazooey Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 Nope. Never gone to an illicit Mass. Never plan on it, either.
Era Might Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 (edited) [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 27 2005, 11:17 PM']Not following the rubrics [b]doesn't not always[/b] make an illicit Mass. It depends on what rules are broken. I would never attend an SSPX Mass. [right][snapback]802077[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I believe that's called a double negative, kind of like attending an illicit Mass that also happens to be an SSPX Mass. : Edited November 28, 2005 by Era Might
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted November 28, 2005 Author Posted November 28, 2005 sorry these are the things that will make a mass illicit: 5. Problematic Abuses - Those which are Illicit [b]There are many more illicit abuses being practiced throughout the diocese of the world. Only some of the most common ones are listed here. Note that there is no attempt to prioritize the abuses as to most to least common or any such ranking. The abuse and the related Church teaching on the proper practice are presented.[/b] [b]5.1 Changing the Prescribed Texts of the Mass; Ad Libbing; Inclusive Language [/b] All the texts of the Mass - prayers, responses, Epistles, Gospel - must be according to the norms approved by the Church. Under no circumstances can anything be changed outside of the rules laid down by the Church. This is clearly stated, even in Vatican II! The modernist usage of inclusive language is getting more widespread. Sacrosanctum Concilium #22: (1) Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church, that is, on the Apostolic See, and, as laws may determine, on the bishop. (2) In virtue of power conceded by law, the regulation of the liturgy within certain defined limits belongs also to various kinds of bishops' conferences, legitimately established, with competence in given territories. (3) Therefore no other person, not even a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority. Canon 928 The eucharistic celebration is to be carried out either in the Latin language or in another language, provided the liturgical texts have been lawfully approved. Inaestimabile Donum #5. "Only the Eucharistic Prayers included in the Roman Missal or those that the Apostolic See has by law admitted, in the manner and within the limits laid down by the Holy See, are to be used. To modify the Eucharistic Prayers approved by the Church or to adopt others privately composed is a most serious abuse." Be aware that it is possible to invalidate the Mass if the key words of the Eucharistic prayer are not properly performed as previously described. ("This is My Body" and "This is ... My Blood") [b]5.2 Holding Hands during the Our Fathe[/b]r Holding hands during the Our Father has become commonplace, but it is an illicit addition to the Liturgy. Clarifications and Interpretations of the GIRM ["Notitiae" Vol. XI (1975) p. 226] explains: ". . .holding hands is a sign of intimacy and not reconciliation, and as such disrupts the flow of the Sacramental signs in the Mass which leads to the Sacramental sign of intimacy with Christ and our neighbor, Holy Communion." 112. QUERY 2: In some places there is a current practice whereby those taking part in the Mass replace the giving of the sign of peace at the deacon's invitation by holding hands during the singing of the Lord's Prayer. Is this acceptable? REPLY: The prolonged holding of hands is of itself a sign of communion rather than of peace. Further, it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics. Nor is there any clear explanation of why the sign of peace at the invitation: "Let us offer each other the sign of peace" should be supplanted in order to bring a different gesture with less meaning into another part of the Mass: the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Any substitution for it must be repudiated. [b]5.3 Performing Liturgical Dance [/b] Dance is not allowed whatsoever. The document Dance In The Liturgy contains a full explanation. To summarize: "[In western culture] dancing is tied with love, with diversion, with profaneness, with unbridling of the senses: such dancing, in general, is not pure." "For that reason it cannot be introduced into liturgical celebrations of any kind whatever: that would be to inject into the liturgy one of the most desacralized and desacralizing elements; and so it would be equivalent to creating an atmosphere of profaneness which would easily recall to those present and to the participants in the celebration worldly places and situations." The Bishops have expressly prohibited any and all forms of dancing in the Liturgy. NATIONAL CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS (BISHOPS' COMMITTEE on the LITURGY) NEWSLETTER. APRIL/MAY 1982. "FROM THESE DIRECTIVES, from the NATIONAL CONFERENCE of CATHOLIC BISHOPS, all dancing, (ballet, children's gesture as dancing, the clown liturgy) are not permitted to be 'introduced into liturgical celebrations of any kind whatever.'" [b]5.4 Omitting the Penitential Rite[/b] The Penitential Rite is when the priest washes his hands after the offering of bread and wine before the Eucharistic prayer. This may not be omitted. The Query and Reply Official Interpretations of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal provides the answer: 52. QUERY: May the rite of washing the hands be omitted from the celebration of Mass? REPLY: In no way. 1. Both the GIRM (nos. 52, 106, 222) and the Order of Mass (with a congregation, no. 24; without a congregation, no. 18) show the "Lavabo" to be one of the prescribed rites in the preparation of the gifts. A rite of major importance is clearly not at issue, but it is not to be dropped since its meaning is: "an expression of the (priest's) desire to be cleansed within" (GIRM no. 52). In the course of the Consilium's work on the Order of Mass, there were a number of debates on the value and the place to be assigned to the "Lavabo," e.g., on whether it should be a rite in silence or with an accompanying text; there was, however, unanimity that it must be retained. Even though there has been no practical reason for the act of hand-washing since the beginning of the Middle Ages, its symbolism is obvious and understood by all (see SC art. 34). The rite is a usage in all liturgies of the West. 2. The Constitution on the Liturgy (SC art. 37-40) envisions ritual adaptations to be suggested by the conferences of bishops and submitted to the Holy See. Such adaptations must be based on serious reasons, for example, the specific culture and viewpoint of a people, contrary and unchangeable usages, the practical impossibility of adapting some new rite that is foreign to the genius of a people, and so on. 3. Apart from the envisioned exemptions from rubrics and differing translations of texts (see Consilium, Instr. 25 Jan. 1969), the Order of Mass is presented as a single unit whose general structure and individual components must be exactly respected. Arbitrary selectiveness on the part of an individual or a community would soon result in the ruin of a patiently and thoughtfully constructed work: Not 6 (1970) 38-39, no. 27. [b]5.5 Replacing or Omitting the Homily on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation[/b] A homily is required on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation. Weekday Masses are not under this obligation, but it is suggested that one be given. Vatican II states so quite clearly, and this is repeated in the GIRM. The homily should be given by the priest, Bishop or deacon and cannot be a talk given by a minister of another faith (i.e. false ecumenism). Sacrosanctum Concilium #52: "By means of the homily the mysteries of the faith and the guiding principles of the Christian life are expounded from the sacred text during the course of the liturgical year. The homily, therefore, is to be highly esteemed as part of the liturgy itself. In fact at those Masses which are celebrated on Sundays and holidays of obligation, with the people assisting, it should not be omitted ..." GIRM #13: "... Nevertheless, Vatican Council II also ordered the observance of certain directives, prescribed by the Council of Trent but not obeyed everywhere. Among these are the obligatory homily on Sundays and holydays ..." Canon 767 ß1 "The most important form of preaching is the homily, which is part of the liturgy, and is reserved to a priest or deacon. In the course of the liturgical year, the mysteries of faith and the rules of Christian living are to be expounded in the homily from the sacred text." ß2 "At all Masses on Sundays and holydays of obligation, celebrated with a congregation, there is to be a homily and, except for a grave reason, this may not be omitted." ß3 "It is strongly recommended that, if a sufficient number of people are present, there be a homily at weekday Masses also, especially during Advent and Lent, or on a feast day or an occasion of grief." [b] 5.6 Homily given by a Lay Person or Nun [/b] When a homily is given, it may never be preached by a lay man, lay woman, or non-ordained religious, such as a nun. Only ordained men may given the homily. The Code of Canon Law states: Canon 767 ß1 The most important form of preaching is the homily, which is part of the liturgy, and is reserved to a priest or deacon. In the course of the liturgical year, the mysteries of faith and the rules of Christian living are to be expounded in the homily from the sacred text. From the latest 2003 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM): 66. The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person.[65] In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate. [Reference 65.] Cf. Codex Iuris Canonici, can. 767 ' 1; Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of the Code of Canon Law, response to dubium regarding can. 767 ß 1: AAS 79 (1987), p. 1249; Interdicasterial Instruction on certain questions regarding the collaboration of the non-ordained faithful in the sacred ministry of priests, Ecclesiae de mysterio, 15 August 1997 , art. 3: AAS 89 (1997), p. 864. [b]5.7 Prohibiting Reception of Communion on the Tongue, or Kneeling, or Genuflecting [/b] Today many reports are heard whereby people are refused Holy Communion because they kneel or receive on the tongue. Those who do so are denying the rights of those who choose to receive in such a manner. Inaestimabile Donum #11: "With regard to the manner of going to Communion, the faithful can receive it either kneeling or standing, in accordance with the norms laid down by the episcopal conference: 'When the faithful communicate kneeling, no other sign of reverence towards the Blessed Sacrament is required, since kneeling is itself a sign of adoration. When they receive Communion standing, it is strongly recommended that, coming up in procession, they should make a sign of reverence before receiving the Sacrament.' [Sacred Congregation of Rites, Instruction "Eucharisticum Mysterium," no. 34. Cf. "Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani," nos. 244 c, 246 b, 247 b.]" Canon 912 "Any baptized person who is not forbidden by law may and must be admitted to holy communion." With the release of the USA Bishops decree stating that the norm for reception of Holy Communion was standing, some have again been denied Holy Communion because of kneeling. The Vatican has formally denounced such behavior and reiterated the right to kneel to receive Our Good Lord. See the several Vatican rulings here. The summary is: Notitiae: July 1, 2002: "The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints [about kneeling] that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful..." [b]5.8 Self-Communication of Anyone but the Priest [/b] Self-communicating means to give oneself the Eucharistic Jesus from the Paten or Ciborium, or from the Chalice for the Precious Blood. Only the priest may administer himself Holy Communion. All others are to receive from him. Inaestimabile Donum #9: "Eucharistic Communion. Communion is a gift of the Lord, given to the faithful through the minister appointed for this purpose. It is not permitted that the faithful should themselves pick up the consecrated bread and the sacred chalice, still less that they should hand them from one to another." [b]5.9 Armies of Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist; "Eucharistic Ministers"[/b] The term "Eucharistic Minister" is actually not a valid definition within the Church. The official term is extraordinary minister of the Eucharist. Commonly practiced today is the excessive use of extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist when there is no need. Inaestimabile Donum #10. "The faithful, whether religious or lay, who are authorized as extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist can distribute Communion only when there is no priest, deacon or acolyte, when the priest is impeded by illness or advanced age, or when the number of the faithful going to Communion is so large as to make the celebration of Mass excessively long. [Cf. Sacred Congregation for the Discipline of the Sacraments, Instruction "Immensae caritatis," no. 1.] Accordingly, a reprehensible attitude is shown by those priests who, though present at the celebration, refrain from distributing Communion and leave this task to the laity."[b] 5.10 Not Wearing the Sacred Vestments [/b] The Sacred vestments, which highlight the "in the Person of Christ" role of the priest, must be worn for celebrating the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Canon 929 In celebrating and administering the Eucharist, priests and deacons are to wear the sacred vestments prescribed by the rubrics. Liturgicae Instaurationes #8c: "The vestment common to ministers of every rank is the alb. The abuse is here repudiated of celebrating or even concelebrating Mass with stole only over the monastic cowl or over ordinary clerical garb, to say nothing of street clothes. Equally forbidden is the wearing of the stole alone over street clothes when carrying out other ritual acts, for example, the laying on of hands at ordinations, administering other sacraments, giving blessings." GIRM #81: "In the sacristy the vestments for the priest and ministers are to be prepared according to the various forms of celebration: (a) for the priest: alb, stole, and chasuble; ..." [b] 5.11 Not Kneeling during the Consecration [/b] Commonly found in parishes where hand-holding during the Our Father is prevalent, the disrespect for Jesus truly present is made manifest by refusing to kneel to God. Kneeling is required after the end of the "Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God" prayer until after the Great Amen of the Eucharistic prayer. Notice that there is no specific provision to avoid kneeling if there are no kneelers in a modernist Church building. GIRM #21: "For the sake of uniformity in movement and posture, the people should follow the directions given during the celebration by the deacon, the priest, or another minister. Unless other provision is made, at every Mass the people should stand from the beginning of the entrance song or when the priest enters until the end of the opening prayer or collect; for the singing of the Alleluia before the gospel; while the gospel is proclaimed; during the profession of faith and the general intercessions; from the prayer over the gifts to the end of the Mass, except at the places indicated later in this paragraph. They should sit during the readings before the gospel and during the responsorial psalm, for the homily and the presentation of the gifts, and, if this seems helpful, during the period of silence after communion. They should kneel at the consecration unless prevented by the lack of space, the number of people present, or some other good reason." GIRM USA Appendix #21: "At its meeting in November, 1969, the National Conference of Catholic Bishops voted that in general, the directives of the "Roman Missal" concerning the posture of the congregation at Mass should be left unchanged, but that no. 21 of the "General Instruction" should be adapted so that the people kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic prayer, that is, before the Lord's Prayer." [b]5.12 Concelebrating Mass with Ministers of Other Faiths [/b] In the name of "ecumenism," some dissenters have been celebrating Mass with other faiths. This is strictly disallowed. Canon 908 Catholic priests are forbidden to concelebrate the Eucharist with priests or ministers of Churches or ecclesial communities which are not in full communion with the catholic Church. [b] 5.13 Offering Holy Communion to those of Other Faiths [/b] Also in the name of "ecumenism," some priests invite those of other faiths to receive Holy Communion. This is strictly disallowed except for a few cases with Eastern Christian Churches (see Vatican II Decree On the Catholic Churches of the Eastern Rite Orientalium Ecclesiarum). Canon 908 Catholic priests are forbidden to concelebrate the Eucharist with priests or ministers of Churches or ecclesial communities which are not in full communion with the catholic Church. Canon 844 ß1 "Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments only to catholic members of Christ's faithful, who equally may lawfully receive them only from catholic ministers, except as provided in ß2, 3 and 4 of this canon and in can. 861 ß2. (note: the latter covers Baptism)" ß2 "Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage commends it, and provided the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, Christ's faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a catholic minister, may lawfully receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid. (note: Protestant ministers do not pass this test)" ß3 "Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the eastern Churches not in full communion with the catholic Church, if they spontaneously ask for them and are properly disposed. The same applies to members of other Churches which the Apostolic See judges to be in the same position as the aforesaid eastern Churches so far as the sacraments are concerned. (note: Protestant faiths do not pass this test)" ß4 "If there is a danger of death or if, in the judgment of the diocesan Bishop or of the Episcopal Conference, there is some other grave and pressing need, catholic ministers may lawfully administer these same sacraments to other Christians not in full communion with the catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who spontaneously ask for them, provided that they demonstrate the catholic faith in respect of these sacraments and are properly disposed. (note: this covers the case where a Protestant converts on his deathbed)" ß5 "In respect of the cases dealt with in ß2, 3 and 4, the diocesan Bishop or the Episcopal Conference is not to issue general norms except after consultation with the competent authority, at least at the local level, of the non-Catholic Church or community concerned." [b] 5.14 Priest and Laity Mixing Roles[/b] The mixing of roles between priests and laity has degraded so far that a specific document was promulgated to address this issue. It is titled Instruction on Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest (Ecclesiae de Mysterio). Vatican II has always clearly defined the role of priest and laity. Sacrosanctum Concilium #28. "In liturgical celebrations each person, minister, or layman who has an office to perform, should carry out all and only those parts which pertain to his office by the nature of the rite and the norms of the liturgy." Canon 907 In the celebration of the Eucharist, deacons and lay persons are not permitted to say the prayers, especially the eucharistic prayer, nor to perform the actions which are proper to the celebrating priest. [b]5.15 Closing the Holy Water Fonts during some Seasons [/b] Although the Holy Water font is not directly related to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, another modernization introduced is to empty the Font during some seasons like Lent or Advent. There is absolutely no rule or recommendation within the Church to do so. Holy Water is a Sacramental and is useful 365 days per year, 24 hours a day. CCC #1668 "Sacramentals are instituted for the sanctification of certain ministries of the Church, certain states of life, a great variety of circumstances in Christian life, and the use of many things helpful to man. In accordance with bishops' pastoral decisions, they can also respond to the needs, culture, and special history of the Christian people of a particular region or time. They always include a prayer, often accompanied by a specific sign, such as the laying on of hands, the sign of the cross, or the sprinkling of holy water (which recalls Baptism)." [b]5.16 During Lent, Washing the Feet of Women or Children as part of Holy Thursday Liturgy [/b] During Lent on Holy Thursday, there is an optional Liturgical Rite whereby the priest washes the feet of men as Jesus washed the feet of the Apostles at the Last Supper where the Eucharist was instituted. When this ceremony is done, only men may have their feet washed, never women or children. The Sacramentary, which is the book that provides the instructions for the liturgy for each day, specifically states that men are to represent the Apostles during the ritual: "Depending on pastoral circumstances, the washing of feet follows the homily. ... The general intercessions follow the washing of feet, or, if this does not take place, they follow the homily." "The men who have been chosen are led by the ministers to chairs prepared in a suitable place. Then the priest (removing his chasuble if necessary) goes to each man. With the help of the ministers, he pours water over each one's feet and dries them." In 1988 the Congregation for Divine Worship reaffirmed that only men's feet are supposed to be washed in the document The Preparation And Celebration Of The Easter Feasts (Paschales Solemnitatis)[10]: #51: "The washing of the feet of chosen men [vir] which, according to tradition, is performed on this day, represents the service and charity of Christ, who came 'not to be served, but to serve' (Matt. 20:28). This tradition should be maintained, and its proper significance explained."
Socrates Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 I think most people who've been to one willingly would claim the mass is not illicit.
cmotherofpirl Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 [quote name='Era Might' date='Nov 27 2005, 11:21 PM']I believe that's called a double negative, kind of like attending an illicit Mass that also happens to be an SSPX Mass. : [right][snapback]802083[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I knew there was something wrong with that sentence.....
cmotherofpirl Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Nov 27 2005, 11:22 PM']sorry these are the things that will make a mass illicit: 5. Problematic Abuses - Those which are Illicit [b]There are many more illicit abuses being practiced throughout the diocese of the world. Only some of the most common ones are listed here. Note that there is no attempt to prioritize the abuses as to most to least common or any such ranking. The abuse and the related Church teaching on the proper practice are presented.[/b] [b]5.1 Changing the Prescribed Texts of the Mass; Ad Libbing; Inclusive Language [/b] All the texts of the Mass - prayers, responses, Epistles, Gospel - must be according to the norms approved by the Church. Under no circumstances can anything be changed outside of the rules laid down by the Church. This is clearly stated, even in Vatican II! The modernist usage of inclusive language is getting more widespread. Sacrosanctum Concilium #22: (1) Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church, that is, on the Apostolic See, and, as laws may determine, on the bishop. (2) In virtue of power conceded by law, the regulation of the liturgy within certain defined limits belongs also to various kinds of bishops' conferences, legitimately established, with competence in given territories. (3) Therefore no other person, not even a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority. Canon 928 The eucharistic celebration is to be carried out either in the Latin language or in another language, provided the liturgical texts have been lawfully approved. Inaestimabile Donum #5. "Only the Eucharistic Prayers included in the Roman Missal or those that the Apostolic See has by law admitted, in the manner and within the limits laid down by the Holy See, are to be used. To modify the Eucharistic Prayers approved by the Church or to adopt others privately composed is a most serious abuse." Be aware that it is possible to invalidate the Mass if the key words of the Eucharistic prayer are not properly performed as previously described. ("This is My Body" and "This is ... My Blood") [b]5.2 Holding Hands during the Our Fathe[/b]r Holding hands during the Our Father has become commonplace, but it is an illicit addition to the Liturgy. Clarifications and Interpretations of the GIRM ["Notitiae" Vol. XI (1975) p. 226] explains: ". . .holding hands is a sign of intimacy and not reconciliation, and as such disrupts the flow of the Sacramental signs in the Mass which leads to the Sacramental sign of intimacy with Christ and our neighbor, Holy Communion." 112. QUERY 2: In some places there is a current practice whereby those taking part in the Mass replace the giving of the sign of peace at the deacon's invitation by holding hands during the singing of the Lord's Prayer. Is this acceptable? REPLY: The prolonged holding of hands is of itself a sign of communion rather than of peace. Further, it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics. Nor is there any clear explanation of why the sign of peace at the invitation: "Let us offer each other the sign of peace" should be supplanted in order to bring a different gesture with less meaning into another part of the Mass: the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Any substitution for it must be repudiated. [b]5.3 Performing Liturgical Dance [/b] Dance is not allowed whatsoever. The document Dance In The Liturgy contains a full explanation. To summarize: "[In western culture] dancing is tied with love, with diversion, with profaneness, with unbridling of the senses: such dancing, in general, is not pure." "For that reason it cannot be introduced into liturgical celebrations of any kind whatever: that would be to inject into the liturgy one of the most desacralized and desacralizing elements; and so it would be equivalent to creating an atmosphere of profaneness which would easily recall to those present and to the participants in the celebration worldly places and situations." The Bishops have expressly prohibited any and all forms of dancing in the Liturgy. NATIONAL CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS (BISHOPS' COMMITTEE on the LITURGY) NEWSLETTER. APRIL/MAY 1982. "FROM THESE DIRECTIVES, from the NATIONAL CONFERENCE of CATHOLIC BISHOPS, all dancing, (ballet, children's gesture as dancing, the clown liturgy) are not permitted to be 'introduced into liturgical celebrations of any kind whatever.'" [b]5.4 Omitting the Penitential Rite[/b] The Penitential Rite is when the priest washes his hands after the offering of bread and wine before the Eucharistic prayer. This may not be omitted. The Query and Reply Official Interpretations of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal provides the answer: 52. QUERY: May the rite of washing the hands be omitted from the celebration of Mass? REPLY: In no way. 1. Both the GIRM (nos. 52, 106, 222) and the Order of Mass (with a congregation, no. 24; without a congregation, no. 18) show the "Lavabo" to be one of the prescribed rites in the preparation of the gifts. A rite of major importance is clearly not at issue, but it is not to be dropped since its meaning is: "an expression of the (priest's) desire to be cleansed within" (GIRM no. 52). In the course of the Consilium's work on the Order of Mass, there were a number of debates on the value and the place to be assigned to the "Lavabo," e.g., on whether it should be a rite in silence or with an accompanying text; there was, however, unanimity that it must be retained. Even though there has been no practical reason for the act of hand-washing since the beginning of the Middle Ages, its symbolism is obvious and understood by all (see SC art. 34). The rite is a usage in all liturgies of the West. 2. The Constitution on the Liturgy (SC art. 37-40) envisions ritual adaptations to be suggested by the conferences of bishops and submitted to the Holy See. Such adaptations must be based on serious reasons, for example, the specific culture and viewpoint of a people, contrary and unchangeable usages, the practical impossibility of adapting some new rite that is foreign to the genius of a people, and so on. 3. Apart from the envisioned exemptions from rubrics and differing translations of texts (see Consilium, Instr. 25 Jan. 1969), the Order of Mass is presented as a single unit whose general structure and individual components must be exactly respected. Arbitrary selectiveness on the part of an individual or a community would soon result in the ruin of a patiently and thoughtfully constructed work: Not 6 (1970) 38-39, no. 27. [b]5.5 Replacing or Omitting the Homily on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation[/b] A homily is required on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation. Weekday Masses are not under this obligation, but it is suggested that one be given. Vatican II states so quite clearly, and this is repeated in the GIRM. The homily should be given by the priest, Bishop or deacon and cannot be a talk given by a minister of another faith (i.e. false ecumenism). Sacrosanctum Concilium #52: "By means of the homily the mysteries of the faith and the guiding principles of the Christian life are expounded from the sacred text during the course of the liturgical year. The homily, therefore, is to be highly esteemed as part of the liturgy itself. In fact at those Masses which are celebrated on Sundays and holidays of obligation, with the people assisting, it should not be omitted ..." GIRM #13: "... Nevertheless, Vatican Council II also ordered the observance of certain directives, prescribed by the Council of Trent but not obeyed everywhere. Among these are the obligatory homily on Sundays and holydays ..." Canon 767 ß1 "The most important form of preaching is the homily, which is part of the liturgy, and is reserved to a priest or deacon. In the course of the liturgical year, the mysteries of faith and the rules of Christian living are to be expounded in the homily from the sacred text." ß2 "At all Masses on Sundays and holydays of obligation, celebrated with a congregation, there is to be a homily and, except for a grave reason, this may not be omitted." ß3 "It is strongly recommended that, if a sufficient number of people are present, there be a homily at weekday Masses also, especially during Advent and Lent, or on a feast day or an occasion of grief." [b] 5.6 Homily given by a Lay Person or Nun [/b] When a homily is given, it may never be preached by a lay man, lay woman, or non-ordained religious, such as a nun. Only ordained men may given the homily. The Code of Canon Law states: Canon 767 ß1 The most important form of preaching is the homily, which is part of the liturgy, and is reserved to a priest or deacon. In the course of the liturgical year, the mysteries of faith and the rules of Christian living are to be expounded in the homily from the sacred text. From the latest 2003 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM): 66. The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person.[65] In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate. [Reference 65.] Cf. Codex Iuris Canonici, can. 767 ' 1; Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of the Code of Canon Law, response to dubium regarding can. 767 ß 1: AAS 79 (1987), p. 1249; Interdicasterial Instruction on certain questions regarding the collaboration of the non-ordained faithful in the sacred ministry of priests, Ecclesiae de mysterio, 15 August 1997 , art. 3: AAS 89 (1997), p. 864. [b]5.7 Prohibiting Reception of Communion on the Tongue, or Kneeling, or Genuflecting [/b] Today many reports are heard whereby people are refused Holy Communion because they kneel or receive on the tongue. Those who do so are denying the rights of those who choose to receive in such a manner. Inaestimabile Donum #11: "With regard to the manner of going to Communion, the faithful can receive it either kneeling or standing, in accordance with the norms laid down by the episcopal conference: 'When the faithful communicate kneeling, no other sign of reverence towards the Blessed Sacrament is required, since kneeling is itself a sign of adoration. When they receive Communion standing, it is strongly recommended that, coming up in procession, they should make a sign of reverence before receiving the Sacrament.' [Sacred Congregation of Rites, Instruction "Eucharisticum Mysterium," no. 34. Cf. "Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani," nos. 244 c, 246 b, 247 b.]" Canon 912 "Any baptized person who is not forbidden by law may and must be admitted to holy communion." With the release of the USA Bishops decree stating that the norm for reception of Holy Communion was standing, some have again been denied Holy Communion because of kneeling. The Vatican has formally denounced such behavior and reiterated the right to kneel to receive Our Good Lord. See the several Vatican rulings here. The summary is: Notitiae: July 1, 2002: "The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints [about kneeling] that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful..." [b]5.8 Self-Communication of Anyone but the Priest [/b] Self-communicating means to give oneself the Eucharistic Jesus from the Paten or Ciborium, or from the Chalice for the Precious Blood. Only the priest may administer himself Holy Communion. All others are to receive from him. Inaestimabile Donum #9: "Eucharistic Communion. Communion is a gift of the Lord, given to the faithful through the minister appointed for this purpose. It is not permitted that the faithful should themselves pick up the consecrated bread and the sacred chalice, still less that they should hand them from one to another." [b]5.9 Armies of Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist; "Eucharistic Ministers"[/b] The term "Eucharistic Minister" is actually not a valid definition within the Church. The official term is extraordinary minister of the Eucharist. Commonly practiced today is the excessive use of extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist when there is no need. Inaestimabile Donum #10. "The faithful, whether religious or lay, who are authorized as extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist can distribute Communion only when there is no priest, deacon or acolyte, when the priest is impeded by illness or advanced age, or when the number of the faithful going to Communion is so large as to make the celebration of Mass excessively long. [Cf. Sacred Congregation for the Discipline of the Sacraments, Instruction "Immensae caritatis," no. 1.] Accordingly, a reprehensible attitude is shown by those priests who, though present at the celebration, refrain from distributing Communion and leave this task to the laity."[b] 5.10 Not Wearing the Sacred Vestments [/b] The Sacred vestments, which highlight the "in the Person of Christ" role of the priest, must be worn for celebrating the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Canon 929 In celebrating and administering the Eucharist, priests and deacons are to wear the sacred vestments prescribed by the rubrics. Liturgicae Instaurationes #8c: "The vestment common to ministers of every rank is the alb. The abuse is here repudiated of celebrating or even concelebrating Mass with stole only over the monastic cowl or over ordinary clerical garb, to say nothing of street clothes. Equally forbidden is the wearing of the stole alone over street clothes when carrying out other ritual acts, for example, the laying on of hands at ordinations, administering other sacraments, giving blessings." GIRM #81: "In the sacristy the vestments for the priest and ministers are to be prepared according to the various forms of celebration: (a) for the priest: alb, stole, and chasuble; ..." [b] 5.11 Not Kneeling during the Consecration [/b] Commonly found in parishes where hand-holding during the Our Father is prevalent, the disrespect for Jesus truly present is made manifest by refusing to kneel to God. Kneeling is required after the end of the "Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God" prayer until after the Great Amen of the Eucharistic prayer. Notice that there is no specific provision to avoid kneeling if there are no kneelers in a modernist Church building. GIRM #21: "For the sake of uniformity in movement and posture, the people should follow the directions given during the celebration by the deacon, the priest, or another minister. Unless other provision is made, at every Mass the people should stand from the beginning of the entrance song or when the priest enters until the end of the opening prayer or collect; for the singing of the Alleluia before the gospel; while the gospel is proclaimed; during the profession of faith and the general intercessions; from the prayer over the gifts to the end of the Mass, except at the places indicated later in this paragraph. They should sit during the readings before the gospel and during the responsorial psalm, for the homily and the presentation of the gifts, and, if this seems helpful, during the period of silence after communion. They should kneel at the consecration unless prevented by the lack of space, the number of people present, or some other good reason." GIRM USA Appendix #21: "At its meeting in November, 1969, the National Conference of Catholic Bishops voted that in general, the directives of the "Roman Missal" concerning the posture of the congregation at Mass should be left unchanged, but that no. 21 of the "General Instruction" should be adapted so that the people kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic prayer, that is, before the Lord's Prayer." [b]5.12 Concelebrating Mass with Ministers of Other Faiths [/b] In the name of "ecumenism," some dissenters have been celebrating Mass with other faiths. This is strictly disallowed. Canon 908 Catholic priests are forbidden to concelebrate the Eucharist with priests or ministers of Churches or ecclesial communities which are not in full communion with the catholic Church. [b] 5.13 Offering Holy Communion to those of Other Faiths [/b] Also in the name of "ecumenism," some priests invite those of other faiths to receive Holy Communion. This is strictly disallowed except for a few cases with Eastern Christian Churches (see Vatican II Decree On the Catholic Churches of the Eastern Rite Orientalium Ecclesiarum). Canon 908 Catholic priests are forbidden to concelebrate the Eucharist with priests or ministers of Churches or ecclesial communities which are not in full communion with the catholic Church. Canon 844 ß1 "Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments only to catholic members of Christ's faithful, who equally may lawfully receive them only from catholic ministers, except as provided in ß2, 3 and 4 of this canon and in can. 861 ß2. (note: the latter covers Baptism)" ß2 "Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage commends it, and provided the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, Christ's faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a catholic minister, may lawfully receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid. (note: Protestant ministers do not pass this test)" ß3 "Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the eastern Churches not in full communion with the catholic Church, if they spontaneously ask for them and are properly disposed. The same applies to members of other Churches which the Apostolic See judges to be in the same position as the aforesaid eastern Churches so far as the sacraments are concerned. (note: Protestant faiths do not pass this test)" ß4 "If there is a danger of death or if, in the judgment of the diocesan Bishop or of the Episcopal Conference, there is some other grave and pressing need, catholic ministers may lawfully administer these same sacraments to other Christians not in full communion with the catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who spontaneously ask for them, provided that they demonstrate the catholic faith in respect of these sacraments and are properly disposed. (note: this covers the case where a Protestant converts on his deathbed)" ß5 "In respect of the cases dealt with in ß2, 3 and 4, the diocesan Bishop or the Episcopal Conference is not to issue general norms except after consultation with the competent authority, at least at the local level, of the non-Catholic Church or community concerned." [b] 5.14 Priest and Laity Mixing Roles[/b] The mixing of roles between priests and laity has degraded so far that a specific document was promulgated to address this issue. It is titled Instruction on Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest (Ecclesiae de Mysterio). Vatican II has always clearly defined the role of priest and laity. Sacrosanctum Concilium #28. "In liturgical celebrations each person, minister, or layman who has an office to perform, should carry out all and only those parts which pertain to his office by the nature of the rite and the norms of the liturgy." Canon 907 In the celebration of the Eucharist, deacons and lay persons are not permitted to say the prayers, especially the eucharistic prayer, nor to perform the actions which are proper to the celebrating priest. [b]5.15 Closing the Holy Water Fonts during some Seasons [/b] Although the Holy Water font is not directly related to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, another modernization introduced is to empty the Font during some seasons like Lent or Advent. There is absolutely no rule or recommendation within the Church to do so. Holy Water is a Sacramental and is useful 365 days per year, 24 hours a day. CCC #1668 "Sacramentals are instituted for the sanctification of certain ministries of the Church, certain states of life, a great variety of circumstances in Christian life, and the use of many things helpful to man. In accordance with bishops' pastoral decisions, they can also respond to the needs, culture, and special history of the Christian people of a particular region or time. They always include a prayer, often accompanied by a specific sign, such as the laying on of hands, the sign of the cross, or the sprinkling of holy water (which recalls Baptism)." [b]5.16 During Lent, Washing the Feet of Women or Children as part of Holy Thursday Liturgy [/b] During Lent on Holy Thursday, there is an optional Liturgical Rite whereby the priest washes the feet of men as Jesus washed the feet of the Apostles at the Last Supper where the Eucharist was instituted. When this ceremony is done, only men may have their feet washed, never women or children. The Sacramentary, which is the book that provides the instructions for the liturgy for each day, specifically states that men are to represent the Apostles during the ritual: "Depending on pastoral circumstances, the washing of feet follows the homily. ... The general intercessions follow the washing of feet, or, if this does not take place, they follow the homily." "The men who have been chosen are led by the ministers to chairs prepared in a suitable place. Then the priest (removing his chasuble if necessary) goes to each man. With the help of the ministers, he pours water over each one's feet and dries them." In 1988 the Congregation for Divine Worship reaffirmed that only men's feet are supposed to be washed in the document The Preparation And Celebration Of The Easter Feasts (Paschales Solemnitatis)[10]: #51: "The washing of the feet of chosen men [vir] which, according to tradition, is performed on this day, represents the service and charity of Christ, who came 'not to be served, but to serve' (Matt. 20:28). This tradition should be maintained, and its proper significance explained." [right][snapback]802084[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Where did you get this list? I want Cam's opinion if this list is valid.
Fides_et_Ratio Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 this poll seems off... I bet everyone has been to an illicitly celebrated Mass in the past month. [b]"illicit" is very different from "invalid".[/b] illicit is annoying (as heck). it just means it didn't entirely follow the norms/rubrics, but was still a vaild Mass. invalid is very, very bad-- go write a letter to the bishop. It means the Eucharist wasn't truly consecrated. As far as I remember the distinction...
tojo Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 27 2005, 10:30 PM']Where did you get this list? I want Cam's opinion if this list is valid. [right][snapback]802097[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I want the same things. I have a hard time seeing how some of these abuses could render the entire Mass illicit.
qfnol31 Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 I don't think those make the Mass illicit in themselves actually. From what I saw, even if that's a schismatic list, it seems to be very honest with what the Church has said.
argent_paladin Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 It is remarkably easy to make a mass illicit. And it is not as bad as it sounds. It could definitely involve simple ignorance (and usually does). However, I personally would not put into the illicit category anything done by the congregation alone, since the presider hardly has control over them. If that were true, then every mass could be illicit, we just wouldn't know (and that would be bad for the scrupulous). I suppose it does depend on the rubric being broken. We once had a mass without a crucifix by the altar. Thus, it was illicit (and the bishop was the celebrant). But it was wholly unintentional and the mass was definitely valid. (Validity is assumed unless there is improper matter (like not actually a priest, or not bread or wine) or improper form (no canon). As to the list, they all seem ok, except I wouldn't say that if two people are holding hands a the Our Father, the entire mass is illicit. If the presider encourages it, then it would be or if it otherwise made a public part of the mass. But a private action, not in the rubrics, doesn't make a mass illicit. Also, processions and other liturgical movements are not dance but are valid and licit. Also, in this multicultural context of modern America, one could go to a mass where dance is permitted. Finally, as the list says, closing holy water fonts doesn't make a mass illicit. But I bet many of you have been to an illicit mass without even knowing it.
argent_paladin Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 One of the most common illicit practices is not using proper sacred vessels, such as ceramic or glass vessels. Also common, as mentioned, is inclusive language. Borderline abuses are altering the text of the mass parts, such as making the Gloria a response or singing "Amen. Alleluia, Forever and ever. Forever, Alleluia, Forever and ever. Amen" rather than the prescribed "Amen." Ask Cam whether playing the piano or guitar makes a mass illicit.
tojo Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 Well then, with a proper understamding of what illicit is now, I have to say that every Mass I've ever been to at my student parish has been illicit. I don't think my home parish's are very often though, if ever.
jiyoung Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 I've had an invalid Mass at my house. Self-administered "communion," which was pita bread. So yeah. My mom refuses to believe me because having Mass in her home was the high point of her life, but it was invalid.
photosynthesis Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 not in the last 2 months, but I did go to Mass once at the Towson University Newman Center. two words: stay away. One of my priest friends said that Cardinal Keeler has given Fr. Bob Albright (the newman center chaplain) 2 warnings and that if he doesn't conform his liturgy to the rules of the church, he is going to be penalized somehow... not sure what they'll do with him though.
argent_paladin Posted November 28, 2005 Posted November 28, 2005 [quote name='jiyoung' date='Nov 27 2005, 11:50 PM']I've had an invalid Mass at my house. Self-administered "communion," which was pita bread. So yeah. My mom refuses to believe me because having Mass in her home was the high point of her life, but it was invalid. [right][snapback]802160[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Wait, are you telling me that an actual ordained Roman Catholic priest came to your mom's house, conducted mass with pita bread and let your mom self-administer the "host"? That's almost unbelievable.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now