Speaking in Tongues

[prose]

So, I was discussing this phenomenon with someone I knew, and she said something very interesting to me.

She said that the if Holy Spirit gives the gift of speaking in tongues that He will always send someone to translate.

She basically said that she thought many people mistook "praying in tongues" with "speaking in tongues" and that the latter was from the HS to the people on earth and the former was from the person praying TO the Lord.

She said that speaking in tongues would be pointless without the gift of interpretation, while praying in tongues is valid b/c it is to God and no one else.

What do you think of this? I thought it sounded pretty logical to me.

What do you think.

I always feel a little lost when people talk about speaking in tongues, or being slain in the spirit or such.

[Brother Adam]

Where is 'praying in tongues' in Scripture or Tradition?

Is praying in tongues actually suppose to mean anything? Or is it just 'holy babbling'?

(honest questions)

[prose]

It sounded logical though...

like I said, I don't know much about charismatic stuff...

[tojo]

[quote name='prose' date='Dec 1 2005, 10:44 AM']So, I was discussing this phenomenon with someone I knew, and she said something very interesting to me.

She said that the if Holy Spirit gives the gift of speaking in tongues that He will always send someone to translate.

She basically said that she thought many people mistook "praying in tongues" with "speaking in tongues"  and that the latter was from the HS to the people on earth and the former was from the person praying TO the Lord.

She said that speaking in tongues would be pointless without the gift of interpretation, while praying in tongues is valid b/c it is to God and no one else.

What do you think of this?  I thought it sounded pretty logical to me.

What do you think.

I always feel a little lost when people talk about speaking in tongues, or being slain in the spirit or such. 
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[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Dec 1 2005, 10:48 AM']Where is 'praying in tongues' in Scripture or Tradition?

Is praying in tongues actually suppose to mean anything? Or is it just 'holy babbling'?

(honest questions)
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The problem with answering these questions, is that the Church has defined little to no doctrine in these areas, nor is there a wide consensus on most of it amongst Protestants, charismatic or otherwise.

My experiences with these matters have mostly occured outside of Catholicism (because I was Protestant then and have only been Catholic for a year.)

There are those who try to distinguish between two types of tongues, and a case can be made for it from the Bible, it's not horribly strong, but neither are the arguements of the opposition against them, imo.

There is no consensus about what to call each type of tongues, but for the sake of convenience, since it's not uncommon, we can go with the previously mentioned, "speaking and praying" categories. However, keep in mind that as these are not official distinctions at all, I or others may interchange them in this or other conversations.

When I was a nondenominational Protestant, I basically held your friends view, and since there isn't any strong teachings otherwise in Catholicism, I've yet to really change it.

However, "speaking in tongues" and having it "interpreted," while I've seen/heard it done a few times, is not common. Maybe because there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of people with the gift if interpretation floating around, Btw, I've never seen "interpretation" among charismatic Catholics, but I've been to very few of their functions other than Mass, where I can't imagine that occuring very often, if ever, and wouldn't want to occur in that setting either.

just posting this...... more to come.... looking up a few things.....

[tojo]

[quote] 26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.[/quote]

The basic idea that some believe is taught herem is that there are times when someone "speaks in tongues to the church" and it must be interpreted then, If it won't or can't be, than they must do so "to himself and to God" and keep quiet in church. This is what most people do most of the time. It might not seem quiet, because you may hear your neighbor speaking in togues, but believe me, someone giving a message for the church (that is followed by interpretation) sounds like they are doing the reading, everyone can hear every word. Also, (btw, I'v eonly seen any of this among Pentecostal specifically) everyone suddenly became very quiet before this happened, everyones mouths shut and we were quiet, which is not typical of Pentecostals.We all somehow knew to be quiet. Btw, I never heard anything doctrinally distinct in any interpreted message in tongues.

[Seven77]

prose, your friend seems to have it right.

since you brought it up..
you know, i had a lot of reservations about this stuff. i went a charismatic conf in Steubenville.. and the last night there as i was in bed i had anxious thoughts creeping in and suddenly i find myself babbling them away. but this gift seemed to fade.

now here is the thing.. your posting this message is amazing! i have been going though such feelings of languish and sadness, i thought i was having a nervious breakdown l ast night. i started calling out the Holy Name of Jesus.. and i start babbling really loud---my mom comes into my room to see if im ok. A gentle soothing peace filled me. i slept so well! praise God!

[quote name='prose' date='Dec 1 2005, 10:44 AM'] She basically said that she thought many people mistook "praying in tongues" with "speaking in tongues"  and that the latter was from the HS to the people on earth and the former was from the person praying TO the Lord.

[b]She said that speaking in tongues would be pointless without the gift of interpretation, while praying in tongues is valid b/c it is to God and no one else.[/b]

What do you think of this?  I thought it sounded pretty logical to me.

What do you think.

I always feel a little lost when people talk about speaking in tongues, or being slain in the spirit or such. 
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[tojo]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Dec 1 2005, 10:48 AM']Where is 'praying in tongues' in Scripture or Tradition?

Is praying in tongues actually suppose to mean anything? Or is it just 'holy babbling'?

(honest questions)
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All this is about what we're calling "praying in tongues."

As far as babbling ideas, it's rather hard to know. It's faitly well settled upon that the person speaking in tongues will always (as far as seems possible) be speaking in "an unknown tongue," that is, a tongue unknown to them. So it can seem rather like babbling to that person.

Also since most people mostly "pray in tongues" and it's for God and theirself, and not their neighbor, usually any of those who hear anyone speak in tongues think it sounds like babbling also.

However, it is not uncommon for a person to occasionally be told and/or personally suspect that he is praying in a certain language. I for example have been told I have definately prayed in French, by someone who speaks that language, and btw, it happened to sound like French at the time, and I suspect I still pray in french not infrequently, though not predominantly (as far as tongues goes.) A friend of mine is a Japanese language student, and he told me once tht another friend of ours was praying in Japanese.

I and friends of mine have also suspected I've prayed in an east Asian laguage and a middle eastern language such as Hebrew or Aramaic, in fact I believe I was using one of those languages when I "sang in tongues."

[Paphnutius]

Quick thought for I am late for class:

Praying in tongues-Samuel's mother when the priest thinks she is drunk.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Dec 1 2005, 12:52 PM']Quick thought for I am late for class:

Praying in tongues-Samuel's mother when the priest thinks she is drunk.
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I hope you're not late for Abbot Gregory's class.

Must be tough having your boss as a teacher...

[tojo]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Dec 1 2005, 11:52 AM']Quick thought for I am late for class:

Praying in tongues-Samuel's mother when the priest thinks she is drunk.
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I have always thought she was simply praying in a distraught manner, silently, which wasn't then customary for Jews.

[inDEED]

I've done it.

[tojo]

[quote name='inDEED' date='Dec 1 2005, 12:42 PM']I've done it.
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Speak in tongues?

Yeah, me too (big surprise). The question is, have I done it today? lol

[inDEED]

[quote name='tomasio127' date='Dec 1 2005, 10:50 AM']Speak in tongues?

Yeah, me too (big surprise). The question is, have I done it today? lol
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No...I'm being serious...

I'm spoken in tongues before and have heard others speak in tongues as well. It's a VERY REAL thing.

[scardella]

[quote name='tomasio127' date='Dec 1 2005, 11:19 AM']However, "speaking in tongues" and having it "interpreted," while I've seen/heard it done a few times, is not common. Maybe because there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of people with the gift if interpretation floating around, Btw, I've never seen "interpretation" among charismatic Catholics, but I've been to very few of their functions other than Mass, where I can't imagine that occuring very often, if ever, and wouldn't want to occur in that setting either.
[/quote]

I've seen it happen at one or more FoP's at Steubenville. I don't see any problems w/ it explained that way.

The head of the religion dept at my old high school related this interesting story:
She was having some sort of medical tests done which required you to relax, but not fall asleep. They monitored brain impulses, etc. To keep herself from being nervous, she was praying in tongues while they were doing the tests. Every time that she would start to pray like that, her brain activity resembled being asleep. I'm not sure how to interpret that, but I thought the effect was interesting. Was it a sort of [i]a priori[/i] way of communication with God? Was it a way of praying the repressed desires of the heart? Was it simply mindless babble? I'm not sure, but I don't think it's the last one, because "mindless babble" seems to be, ironically, very voluntary in nature. I know in MY experience, it certainly produces a different effect on me.

Anyway, that's the lunchbreak meditation.

[tojo]

interesting....

[beatty07]

Prose, your friend is right because she's presenting the Apostle Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians 14. The whole chapter is relevant, but especially verse 28:

"But if there is no one to interpret, let them be silent in church and speak to themselves and to God"

The Scriptures make it abundantly clear that tongues are a real gift, but many Christians take this way to far. In my Air Force chaplaincy school, I met people who honestly believe that if you don't speak in tongues you will GO TO HELL. I couldn't help but wonder if they'd ever actually used their brain and their Bible at the same time.

[tojo]

[quote name='beatty07' date='Dec 1 2005, 05:30 PM']Prose, your friend is right because she's presenting the Apostle Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians 14.  The whole chapter is relevant, but especially verse 28:

"But if there is no one to interpret, let them be silent in church and speak to themselves and to God"

The Scriptures make it abundantly clear that tongues are a real gift, but many Christians take this way to far.  In my Air Force chaplaincy school, I met people who honestly believe that if you don't speak in tongues you will GO TO HELL.  I couldn't help but wonder if they'd ever actually used their brain and their Bible at the same time.
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I can't help but wonder if you have any understanding of their theology at all....

[beatty07]

[quote name='tomasio127' date='Dec 1 2005, 07:43 PM']I can't help but wonder if you have any understanding of their theology at all....
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Fair enough, it's a bizarre statement and you're right to give them the benefit of the doubt over me. But that's what they stated very explicitly: that you must speak in tongues to be saved. If you die without speaking in tongues you will go to Hell.

The idea is that speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit (true!). And that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are signs that we have the life of God within us (true!). And that absent that, no works can save us (true!). And that everyone who is living a life of grace will manifest every gift of the Spirit (not true and incredibly unscriptural!).

This is combined with an emphasis on "Baptism in the Holy Spirit." Some denominations, eg the Grace Gospel Fellowship, go so far as to deny water Baptism. This particular group accepts water Baptism as a non-efficacious symbol, but recognizes Baptism in the Holy Spirit as the moment of salvation. And if you haven't spoken in tongues, you haven't been Baptized in the Holy Spirit.

I hasten to add that this is a very small denomination that is quite unrepresentative of evangelical Christianity in general. Even most Christians who are specially emphatic about tongues would disagree completely.

It's too bad that this radical, weird, and nonscriptural stuff is out there, because the result seems to be that Catholics and many other Christians feel the need to distance themselves from the whole tongues thing. That's a tragedy, because then both parties have set Scripture aside.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='prose' date='Dec 1 2005, 10:44 AM']So, I was discussing this phenomenon with someone I knew, and she said something very interesting to me.

She said that the if Holy Spirit gives the gift of speaking in tongues that He will always send someone to translate.

She basically said that she thought many people mistook "praying in tongues" with "speaking in tongues"  and that the latter was from the HS to the people on earth and the former was from the person praying TO the Lord.

She said that speaking in tongues would be pointless without the gift of interpretation, while praying in tongues is valid b/c it is to God and no one else.

What do you think of this?  I thought it sounded pretty logical to me.

What do you think.

I always feel a little lost when people talk about speaking in tongues, or being slain in the spirit or such. 
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that's how I understand it so I'd agree with your friend.

I don't consider myself to be "charismatic", but I believe in it.
I prefer adoration and other traditional things to charismatic prayer meetings and I'm into the Tridentine Mass. Actually I can't stand "charismatic" Masses. But I must say that I've experienced being slain in the spirit and praying in tongues, plus I believe in the gifts of prophecy, healing, etc.. I've experienced and seen a lot of stuff so it would be hard for me not to believe in it. But I just don't think that its the be all end all of Christian spirituality and I'm turned off by much of the charismatic renewal movement.

[Tony]

I am not Charismtic or whatever, but a couple years ago, I found this going through google groups (usenet).. basically, someome mentions praying in tongues... without ever hearing of this before.

[url="http://groups.google.com/group/bit.listserv.catholic/browse_thread/thread/6d89ac28bd406afa/40c80b746cfdf5af?lnk=st&q=Kathy+Rabenstein+tongues&rnum=1#40c80b746cfdf5af"]http://groups.google.com/group/bit.listser...0c80b746cfdf5af[/url]

(1st post in the thread)