Speaking in Tongues

[beatty07]

Prose, your friend is right because she's presenting the Apostle Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians 14. The whole chapter is relevant, but especially verse 28:

"But if there is no one to interpret, let them be silent in church and speak to themselves and to God"

The Scriptures make it abundantly clear that tongues are a real gift, but many Christians take this way to far. In my Air Force chaplaincy school, I met people who honestly believe that if you don't speak in tongues you will GO TO HELL. I couldn't help but wonder if they'd ever actually used their brain and their Bible at the same time.

[tojo]

[quote name='beatty07' date='Dec 1 2005, 05:30 PM']Prose, your friend is right because she's presenting the Apostle Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians 14.  The whole chapter is relevant, but especially verse 28:

"But if there is no one to interpret, let them be silent in church and speak to themselves and to God"

The Scriptures make it abundantly clear that tongues are a real gift, but many Christians take this way to far.  In my Air Force chaplaincy school, I met people who honestly believe that if you don't speak in tongues you will GO TO HELL.  I couldn't help but wonder if they'd ever actually used their brain and their Bible at the same time.
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I can't help but wonder if you have any understanding of their theology at all....

[beatty07]

[quote name='tomasio127' date='Dec 1 2005, 07:43 PM']I can't help but wonder if you have any understanding of their theology at all....
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Fair enough, it's a bizarre statement and you're right to give them the benefit of the doubt over me. But that's what they stated very explicitly: that you must speak in tongues to be saved. If you die without speaking in tongues you will go to Hell.

The idea is that speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit (true!). And that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are signs that we have the life of God within us (true!). And that absent that, no works can save us (true!). And that everyone who is living a life of grace will manifest every gift of the Spirit (not true and incredibly unscriptural!).

This is combined with an emphasis on "Baptism in the Holy Spirit." Some denominations, eg the Grace Gospel Fellowship, go so far as to deny water Baptism. This particular group accepts water Baptism as a non-efficacious symbol, but recognizes Baptism in the Holy Spirit as the moment of salvation. And if you haven't spoken in tongues, you haven't been Baptized in the Holy Spirit.

I hasten to add that this is a very small denomination that is quite unrepresentative of evangelical Christianity in general. Even most Christians who are specially emphatic about tongues would disagree completely.

It's too bad that this radical, weird, and nonscriptural stuff is out there, because the result seems to be that Catholics and many other Christians feel the need to distance themselves from the whole tongues thing. That's a tragedy, because then both parties have set Scripture aside.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='prose' date='Dec 1 2005, 10:44 AM']So, I was discussing this phenomenon with someone I knew, and she said something very interesting to me.

She said that the if Holy Spirit gives the gift of speaking in tongues that He will always send someone to translate.

She basically said that she thought many people mistook "praying in tongues" with "speaking in tongues"  and that the latter was from the HS to the people on earth and the former was from the person praying TO the Lord.

She said that speaking in tongues would be pointless without the gift of interpretation, while praying in tongues is valid b/c it is to God and no one else.

What do you think of this?  I thought it sounded pretty logical to me.

What do you think.

I always feel a little lost when people talk about speaking in tongues, or being slain in the spirit or such. 
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that's how I understand it so I'd agree with your friend.

I don't consider myself to be "charismatic", but I believe in it.
I prefer adoration and other traditional things to charismatic prayer meetings and I'm into the Tridentine Mass. Actually I can't stand "charismatic" Masses. But I must say that I've experienced being slain in the spirit and praying in tongues, plus I believe in the gifts of prophecy, healing, etc.. I've experienced and seen a lot of stuff so it would be hard for me not to believe in it. But I just don't think that its the be all end all of Christian spirituality and I'm turned off by much of the charismatic renewal movement.

[Tony]

I am not Charismtic or whatever, but a couple years ago, I found this going through google groups (usenet).. basically, someome mentions praying in tongues... without ever hearing of this before.

[url="http://groups.google.com/group/bit.listserv.catholic/browse_thread/thread/6d89ac28bd406afa/40c80b746cfdf5af?lnk=st&q=Kathy+Rabenstein+tongues&rnum=1#40c80b746cfdf5af"]http://groups.google.com/group/bit.listser...0c80b746cfdf5af[/url]

(1st post in the thread)

[Laudate_Dominum]

one of the coolest things was when these people were going to minister to some prisoners in Mexico but the guards wouldn't let them in so they started praying and reading Scripture out loud and all the guards were slain in the Spirit for a long time.

just kind of cool.

[blovedwolfofgod]

I have been very skeptical about this. So I investigated a little. My priest says that the Spirit prays within us with "inexpressable groanings." I was reading a pamphelt I got about tongues from a catholic church. They have charismatic adoration. Actually, I have had several ppl prophecy over me and they havent met one another, yet said the same things. Anyway, so the pamphlet (written by some monsignor guy) said that the prayer tongues was meant for everyone (insert bible reference from Corinthians). It also said this variety was prayer without intellect. It was a prayer of the spirit. Your spirit and the Spirit pray within you for things that are hidden from your intellect, or maybe not hidden, but it prays for you in ways you do not know how to pray. For Jesus says we do not know how to pray as we ought, but we are being taught through tongues.

meh...

[tojo]

[quote name='beatty07' date='Dec 1 2005, 08:14 PM']Fair enough, it's a bizarre statement and you're right to give them the benefit of the doubt over me.  But that's what they stated very explicitly:  that you must speak in tongues to be saved.  If you die without speaking in tongues you will go to Hell.

The idea is that speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit (true!).  And that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are signs that we have the life of God within us (true!).  And that absent that, no works can save us (true!).  And that everyone who is living a life of grace will manifest every gift of the Spirit (not true and incredibly unscriptural!).

This is combined with an emphasis on "Baptism in the Holy Spirit."  Some denominations, eg the Grace Gospel Fellowship, go so far as to deny water Baptism.  This particular group accepts water Baptism as a non-efficacious symbol, but recognizes Baptism in the Holy Spirit as the moment of salvation.  And if you haven't spoken in tongues, you haven't been Baptized in the Holy Spirit.

I hasten to add that this is a very small denomination that is quite unrepresentative of evangelical Christianity in general.  Even most Christians who are specially emphatic about tongues would disagree completely.

It's too bad that this radical, weird, and nonscriptural stuff is out there, because the result seems to be that Catholics and many other Christians feel the need to distance themselves from the whole tongues thing.  That's a tragedy, because then both parties have set Scripture aside.
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That does seem to be a fairly good understanding of that type of theology, good for you....