Theologians to ask Pope to suspend limbo?

[PadreSantiago]

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Limbo -- the place where the Catholic Church teaches that babies go if they die before being baptized -- may have its days numbered.
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According to Italian media reports on Tuesday, an international theological commission will advise
Pope Benedict to eliminate the teaching about limbo from the Catholic catechism.

The Catholic Church teaches that babies who die before they can be baptized go to limbo, whose name comes from the Latin for "border" or "edge," because they deserve neither heaven nor hell.

Last October, seven months before he died,
Pope John Paul asked the commission to come up with "a more coherent and enlightened way" of describing the fate of such innocents.

It was then headed by
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who was elected Pope in April. It is now headed by his successor at the
Vatican's doctrinal department, Archbishop William Levada, an American from San Francisco.

The commission, which has been meeting behind closed doors, may make its recommendation soon.

In his Divine Comedy, Dante passes limbo on his way into hell and writes: "Great grief seized on my own heart when this I heard, because some people of much worthiness I knew, who in limbo were suspended."

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So what does everyone think about limbo? Should it stay or should it go? I'm not a catholic authority by any means but wasn't the idea of limbo originally implemented in the divine comedy? i mean it's not in the bible anywhere is it?

Edited December 2, 2005 by PadreSantiago

[Aloysius]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=43608"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=43608[/url]

I believe in a concept of limbo that could be opened at the Second Coming of Christ (limbo was opened at the First Coming, it was biblically called the 'bosom of abraham', a section of the abode of the dead where there were no positive punishments and the just who had died awaited the coming of the savior.)

[N/A Gone]

in any form of a salvation metaphysic limbo has no place. "hell" is without God cause we dont want him, purgatory is where we are finishing the edification process before heaven(waiting line to get a nice shower) but where is limbo? There is no need.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 2 2005, 03:32 AM']in any form of a salvation metaphysic limbo has no place. "hell" is without God cause we dont want him, purgatory is where we are finishing the edification process before heaven(waiting line to get a nice shower) but where is limbo? There is no need.
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I actually agree. Limbo is a theory that doesn't work. I will discuss/debate the matter with anyone who disagrees if they're interested.

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Dec 2 2005, 05:18 AM']I actually agree.
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you sound suprised...

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 2 2005, 04:19 AM']you sound suprised...
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awwww. I didn't mean it like that. I put in the word "actually" mainly because I thought people might be surprised that I don't accept the theory of limbo. Because I fancy myself a traditionalist, and traditionalists most often accept this theory. But maybe I'm deluded; maybe people don't perceive me as a traditionalist at all. Maybe I'm seen as a progressive..

I need to make a poll and see how people around here think of me.

[Aloysius]

I would be interested in discussing this with you. I think it certainly does work.

[N/A Gone]

you're a trad? but you havent called me a heretic, liberal or damned me yet?
this is a sad day among my people...

[The Joey-O]

Yeah...as usual, I second Revprodeji...steeler of my ideas...j/k.

To Lauate: You say you like some Thomistic stuff, you are a mixture of Eastern and Western thought and someone called you a Bonnaventurean (I'm pretty sure I just slaughtered that spelling). That sounds a lot like the road I'm starting down. You are clearly way ahead of me in this area (I'm a very new Catholic...I'm not yet confirmed). What books and works would you recommend reading? Would you be interested in IMing sometime?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Dec 2 2005, 04:30 AM']I would be interested in discussing this with you.  I think it certainly does work.
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Yes!! I have a victim. muahahahaa

There is a thread from at least a year ago (maybe closer to two) in which popestpiusx, Adeodatus and myself discussed limbo for a good while. popestpiusx defending limbo, Adeodatus sort of defending limbo but also open to the contrary viewpoint, and myself denying the validity of limbo. It was a great debate. Anyway, I felt that I did a pretty good job back then, but I've had over a year to stew on it. muahahahaaa! beware!

hehehe, j/k. I actually haven't given it much thought since then and I feel pretty rusty. I think I should beware; my over confidence is my weakness. "And your faith in your friends is yours!"

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='The Joey-O' date='Dec 2 2005, 04:34 AM']Yeah...as usual, I second Revprodeji...steeler of my ideas...j/k.

To Lauate: You say you like some Thomistic stuff, you are a mixture of Eastern and Western thought and someone called you a Bonnaventurean (I'm pretty sure I just slaughtered that spelling). That sounds a lot like the road I'm starting down. You are clearly way ahead of me in this area (I'm a very new Catholic...I'm not yet confirmed). What books and works would you recommend reading? Would you be interested in IMing sometime?
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Yeah, we should kick off an IM conversation. Keeping any debates in the public forum if possible. But I think it would be great to discuss general Catholic stuff.

As far as my views, I'm a work in progress. I started out reading Bonaventure and have always had a love for the Franciscan tradition, but I also have a great love for Thomas and am I big fan of several modern Thomistic philosophers and theologians. For a while now I have felt that the theological project of the Greek Fathers and even post-schism Eastern Orthodox Theology has profound insight. I suppose I can't help but be sort of a theological confusion. hehe
I am still very much a Padawan learner (hehe) but hope someday to mature and actually have some coherent views regarding the mysteries of our Faith. Thanks be to God that we have authoritative teachings or else I would likely be totally drowned in a raging sea of speculative madness.

What has been the course of your own speculative endeavors? I think its neat that you are exploring the possibility of the appropriation of open theism within Catholic Theology. A bold endeavor to say the least.

[Aloysius]

haha I think I was actually part of that thread

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Dec 2 2005, 04:58 AM']haha I think I was actually part of that thread
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I think you were too, stpopepiusx and Adeodatus stand out because they had lots of long posts and I believe we also did some PMing.

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 2 2005, 05:33 AM']you're a trad? but you havent called me a heretic, liberal or damned me yet?
this is a sad day among my people...    
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hmm...you dont deny it..


[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Dec 2 2005, 05:45 AM'] I think its neat that you are exploring the possibility of the appropriation of open theism within Catholic Theology. A bold endeavor to say the least.
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i converted him...thats what he gets for rooming with me..

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 2 2005, 05:11 AM']hmm...you dont deny it..
i converted him...thats what he gets for rooming with me..
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haha

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 2 2005, 04:33 AM']you're a trad? but you havent called me a heretic, liberal or damned me yet?
this is a sad day among my people...    
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I'm not a bad traditionalist. Maybe I should make a distinction..

If I may sort of coin some terms, I'm not a doxological traditionalist, I'm more of a praxiological traditionalist. In other words I have traditionalist sensibilities when it comes to Liturgy, worship and Church discipline and practice, but theologically I would certainly be dubbed an enemy of the radical traditionalist camp.

[Aloysius]

it might not have been the same thread... haha I donno, there were like three threads on the same topic at the same time I remember bouncing around... that was the last Limbo Age of Phatmass. There appears to be arising another Limbo Age at present!!

I'm game to discuss it if you are.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Dec 2 2005, 05:18 AM']it might not have been the same thread... haha I donno, there were like three threads on the same topic at the same time I remember bouncing around... that was the last Limbo Age of Phatmass.  There appears to be arising another Limbo Age at present!!

I'm game to discuss it if you are.
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hehehe, alright.. I should be off to take a nap soon (like 4 hours ago), but if you start a thread I'll be sure to dive in soon enough.

Unless you think this thread will suffice?

[N/A Gone]

yea, on another catholic forum I was on it was invested with "trads" who thought protestants were all hellbound scum, and as a hybrid I didnt make the most friends. But I frustrated many of them..

[Matty_boy]

Limbo would contradict the fact that God is a merciful God. He's too stringent on the rules to let the most innocent into heaven before they even had the ability to commit sin, so he puts them in an eternal play-crib.