photosynthesis Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 ok, so some people believe that Santa Claus comes down the chimney every year to give presents to all the good girls and boys... he has a list, he checks it twice, blah blah blah but... this um... doesn't actually happen. I hope it's OK for me to say that Santa isn't real and that it's your mom and dad (or whoever) who gives the gifts and fills the christmas stockings. It's just the way it is. so... why do we continue the myth year after year if it's not real?
philothea Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I don't have kids... ... but I would not be able to claim Santa's existence.
photosynthesis Posted December 20, 2005 Author Posted December 20, 2005 i guess i think it's weird sometimes because you're trying to convince kids to believe in something that doesn't exist
Myles Domini Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 On the contrary Santa Claus is very much a real figure and thats his danger. What we know today as Santa Claus though often passed off as a perverted version of St Nicholas is actually the latest incarnation of the daemon Odin. Odin has managed by morphing himself into this mince pie eating pudgy figure to become 'Father Christmas' robbing that title from God and year after year entertain petitions and acts of piety done to appease him from millions of children the world over. It is likely that even when he was laird in Scandanvia that he did not enjoy such adjulation.... INXC Myles
photosynthesis Posted December 20, 2005 Author Posted December 20, 2005 goodness gracious!!!! I had no idea about this.. santa claus is a scandanavian demon? i guess i'd believe it, seeing that the "santa claus" of western commercialism doesn't seem to have anything to do with St. Nicholas any more.
Myles Domini Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 The Santa we know is modelled on Odin of Valhalla. Hence the whole thing about riding across the sky on a chariot etc.etc. If I knew where they were I'd dig out my old R.S. notes on this subject. Perhaps one of the Church Scholars could direct you to the development of the character of Santa from a 4th century saintly Bishop to a syncretised form of a norse 'god'. INXC Myles
photosynthesis Posted December 20, 2005 Author Posted December 20, 2005 I would most definitely like to learn more about this... i didn't know santa was so scary and evil
qfnol31 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 Odin is awesome! I did him once in a poem...but it sounds better in Old Norse. Gagnrathr.
goldenchild17 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Dec 19 2005, 11:17 PM']ok, so some people believe that Santa Claus comes down the chimney every year to give presents to all the good girls and boys... he has a list, he checks it twice, blah blah blah but... this um... doesn't actually happen. I hope it's OK for me to say that Santa isn't real and that it's your mom and dad (or whoever) who gives the gifts and fills the christmas stockings. It's just the way it is. so... why do we continue the myth year after year if it's not real? [right][snapback]831336[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't believe you . Unless you set up surveillance inside and out of every single house in the world and then show me the tape afterwards, I will not believe that Santa does not come every year. ...
qfnol31 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Dec 20 2005, 01:12 AM']demons are not awesome [right][snapback]831427[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Why is he a demon?
Myles Domini Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I call him such because thats how the Church Fathers regarded all the pagan gods. When St Boniface evangelised the Germans of the Rhine I think he used the same terminology. INXC Myles
beatty07 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I'd be interested in some evidence for that Santa-Claus-is-a-demon theory. It sounds like the same kind of stretch people make when they say Jesus is derived from the Babylonian Marduk. At first I thought it was a joke! I'm with Chesterton on this. What's so terrible about telling kids a fairy tale that inculcates them with the idea of gratuitous gift? Isn't it a great preparation for the concept of grace? God forbid kids should believe in a benevolent greater-than-human giver. And they don't have to grow out of it, really. Santa Claus just gets bigger the older you get. I once wondered and marvelled at the miraculous appearance of presents and toys under the tree. Just for me? Now I wonder even more at the appearance of the sun in the morning. How did that get there? And with one more small step, you wonder how you got here. Whose present is that? The world is a magical place where the division between supernatural and natural rarely applies. The veil is so thin...especially at Christmas. As Aquinas made so beautifully clear, there's nothing that didn't just show up out of nowhere! Thomas also warned us that all our understanding of God is completely inadequate to His reality. So what's wrong with giving kids something they can grasp? A fairy tale that is more true than mere facts? I know it can be done badly, but it can also be part of introducing a child to God's grace.
qfnol31 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 Well I was just wondering if you guys are translating "daemon" as demon. I would personally say "spirit" but I guess it would mean about the same thing. I think there's supposed to somehow be a link to Christianity in the Old Norse myths, though it's been over a year since I've encountered them.
photosynthesis Posted December 20, 2005 Author Posted December 20, 2005 what did Chesterton say about Santa Claus? and i see your point about introducing your children to the concept of grace... however, i don't think this is how most families are teaching their children...
Church Punk Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 Isn't the figure of Santa based around St. Nicholas whos feast day was celebrated not long ago? I understand that the story has been morphed many times, however I not sure that I would go as far as calling Santa a demon. When dealing with things of such matters we must look at the virtues of the figure it self. Does the myth of Santa contain messages of evil that go agaist the teachings of Christ and His character? Or does the myth of Santa promote Christ and His Character. Santa calls for children to be good, listen to their parents, do good to their neighbour, all year This appears to be Christ like attributes. Or does the message of Santa call children to deny their parents authority, act how they want all year, dress how the want part take in immoral things (IE our daily TV and media does!) I think that we can teach children the significance of Santa as honouring St. Nick, allowing that excitement to build as it should for the coming of Christ. However we need to teach that it is not Santa that brings this joy but Christ.
beatty07 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Dec 20 2005, 01:34 AM']what did Chesterton say about Santa Claus? and i see your point about introducing your children to the concept of grace... however, i don't think this is how most families are teaching their children... [right][snapback]831459[/snapback][/right] [/quote] you're right, I certainly don't think that Santa Claus is being done well in our time and place. Thanks for motivating me to track down the quote; I am of course astonished at the poverty of my crappy little attempt to pass it on! Here's Chesterton: [url="http://www.spiritualityhealth.com/newsh/excerpts/bookreview/excp_6767.html"]http://www.spiritualityhealth.com/newsh/ex.../excp_6767.html[/url]
beatty07 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Dec 20 2005, 01:33 AM']Well I was just wondering if you guys are translating "daemon" as demon. I would personally say "spirit" but I guess it would mean about the same thing. [right][snapback]831458[/snapback][/right] [/quote] you're right, "spirit" is a far better translation. But since we're talking about a daemon that isn't good, it's gotta be a demon.
Earthsea Annie Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Dec 19 2005, 10:17 PM']but... this um... doesn't actually happen. [right][snapback]831336[/snapback][/right] [/quote] WHAT! It does SO actually happen.
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