Where does Presumption end and Despair begin?

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Dec 28 2005, 07:19 PM']The passage where Jesus mentions the "unforgivable sin" is usually used as a defense for Purgatory, which would mean that all sins but the fundamental rejection of God, who is Truth, can be wiped away in Purgatory.
[/quote]
I think that is a misreading of the passage. It states that there is only one unforgiveable sin, not that all sins will be forgiven regardless of any lack of contrition. We still must ask for forgiveness for mortal sins and venial sins (which the latter may be implicit by the reception of the Eucharist).

Purgatory is a sanctification or purifying process, not a forgiving one. Purgatory presupposes salvation and forgiveness ofsins. An unforgiven mortal sin would still bar one from purgatory be it the unforgivable one or otherwise.

Edited December 29, 2005 by Paphnutius

[Ziggamafu]

right, but what does "mortal" sin presuppose? i think if all three conditions for mortal sin are truly met then there MUST be a conscious rejection of God and choice of Hell.

this is the only way we can know the "sin leading unto death" from other sins, objectively. i mean come on, socrates was saying that some of the ten commandments are only grave if the situation is...well serious "enough", I guess. that's pretty subjective. where's the line drawn? God is not a relativist.

Also, this escapes the fundamental option heresy or whatever you guys called it because it requires a grave sin; it still requires all three conditions to be met.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Dec 28 2005, 08:42 PM']I think that is a misreading of the passage. It states that there is only one unforgiveable sin, not that all sins will be forgiven regardless of any lack of contrition. We still must ask for forgiveness for mortal sins and venial sins (which the latter may be implicit by the reception of the Eucharist).

Purgatory is a sanctification or purifying  process, not a forgiving one. Purgatory presupposes salvation and forgiveness ofsins. An unforgiven mortal sin would still bar one from purgatory be it the unforgivable one or otherwise.
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if you had an unforgiven mortal sin when you died, wouldn't you be committing the unforgivable sin? isn't the unforgivable sin not asking for forgiveness, accepting God's grace?

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='Dec 30 2005, 12:04 PM']if you had an unforgiven mortal sin when you died, wouldn't you be committing the unforgivable sin? isn't the unforgivable sin not asking for forgiveness, accepting God's grace?
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exactly my point.