Iglesia Ni Cristo

[ReinnieR]

well here's the deal pham

i've been engaged with this debate for almost a month now.

it all started when i left a comment on a xanga

[url="http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/MAYakap_yakap.htm"]http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/MAYakap_yakap.htm[/url]

after leaving these comments i get this e-mail

[url="http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/Roy_Montemayor.htm"]http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/Roy_Montemayor.htm[/url]

so i responded with this

[url="http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/My_Response.htm"]http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/My_Response.htm[/url]

i brought up 1 John 18-19 because the founder of Iglesia Ni Cristo (Felix Manalo) was baptized Catholic

then this person replies with this

[url="http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/Roy_Montemayor_2.htm"]http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/Roy_Montemayor_2.htm[/url]

then i responded with this

[url="http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/My_Response_2.htm"]http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/My_Response_2.htm[/url]

this is the last e-mail this person sent. i haven't replied to this one

[url="http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/Roy_Montemayor_3.htm"]http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/Roy_Montemayor_3.htm[/url]


so what do you think pham?

if anybody wants to help me on this, please do i would appreciate it

my e-mail address is reinnier.tiamzon@tlab.centaf.af.mil

please don't send him an e-mail him

just send it to me

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

im no apologist but.... you might want to tell that this "Holy Roman Catholic Apostolistic Church" as he calls us put together the bible that he is refrencing, AFTER nicea (the council where Christ was declared God).

[thessalonian]

Couple thoughts. Perhaps more later.



[quote]the fact of the matter is, as you quoted:


"The West made it normative in A.D. 306 at the Council of Elvira and mandatory in 1074 by Pope Gregory VII and reaffirmed in 1139 at the Second Lateran Council."

it is no longer optional, but mandatory...meaning that there are consequences if one chooses not to follow.  it no longer becomes simply a discipline, but is now a command, a doctrine that the priest or nun should follow or else be penalized for it.  perhaps the "eastern church" has a leg up on the "western church" on this matter by not making celibacy mandatory.[/quote]

The fact is that it is not mandatory that one be a priest. There should be a discernment as to whether one has a call to celibacy for paul and Jesus both speak of this (matt 19, 1 Cor 7). Jesus says t"o some this has been given", Paul "it is better not to marry".. A young man in the Catholic Church is given this opportunity to discern between celibacy and the married life. Certainly you do not have a problem with this. If he chooses marriage he makes a vow to his wife. If he chooses celibacy such a vow most certainly be a high calling and should be obeyed. Now then such a young man has the opportunity to be a priest. He has not been forbidden to marry but has chosen the single life. That is the reality. Noone forces him to choose to be celibate or says that marriage is bad. It is given up because it is a good for a greater good.

There were in fact sects who did forbid marriage such as the gnostics in Pauls time because they saw marriage as evil. Sex was permitted outside of marriage oddly enough by these groups. This is likely what Paul was speaking of. They forbid marriage because they viewed the body as completely evil and to be abused.

[quote]the same holds true for abstinence. though meat may not be commanded to be abstained from everywhere Yes, God commanded that there are certain things should not be eaten, like meat offered to idols. why? because it is meat?  NO because it is no longer just meat, but is a sacrifice to a false god, and as the Bible teaches, Christians should have nothing to do with anything in honor of pagan gods.  we are forbidden to eat blood because blood is not food.  it is life and through the shedding of blood (in the Christian era the shedding of Christ's blood) that our sins are forgiven.  i'm not too sure about meat from strangled animals, i will get back to you on that, but i'm sure it has something to do with the fact that the animal was strangled.  if there are meats that do no fall into either of these categories, then true Christians should not be commanded to abstain from them.  the key here is that the verse says, "which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving."  of course, anything that violates His commands...like food offered to false gods or idols, is excluded from this.[/quote]

Not quite sure what the lenten practice of astinance of meat on friday has to do with meat sacrificed to idols. The lenten practice is seen as a form of fasting. Abstaining from a good thing, meat. Surely you do not have a problem with fasting I would hope. There are various forms of it from a complete fast to fasting from certain things. Interestingly enough Paul tells us that couples can do a sort of fasting from sex for a time of prayer. Abstaining from meat in the lenten context is simply a fast from meat during a time of prayer. It is not a prohibition once again as the gnostics, of whom Paul is likely speaking of belied eating meat was bad. But because meat and food are good. Catholic fasting takes on a variety of forms and this form is commanded for the good of the faithful so that they perform some simple form of fast in their life. It is hardly repressive.

[phatcatholic]

ReinnieR..................see the entry on Iglesia Ni Cristo in the directory:
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/207"]http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/207[/url]

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jan 16 2006, 05:42 PM']ReinnieR..................see the entry on Iglesia Ni Cristo in the directory:
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/207"]http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/207[/url]
[right][snapback]857517[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
THANKS NICK!

yes i have seen this. i even added one of the links there. "into the maw of the cult"

i have been using the directory. i really love that thing.

thanks Nick

i really appreciate the directory

thanks Dust for this wonderful website.

[phatcatholic]

haha, np bro

[ReinnieR]

i finally responded

here's my response

[url="http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/My_Response_3.htm"]http://reinnier.tiamzon.net/My_Response_3.htm[/url]