Is Terrorism winning

[Myles Domini]

Given the gutless cowardess shown by many renowed newscasters throughout the Western world for [b]fear[/b] of offending Muslims is it fair to say that the Terrorists are winning? That [b]terror[/b] has truly [b]terrified [/b]the West to such an extent that people are quaking in their boots for fear of expressing the 'free speech' they seem to so cherish in the face of non-violent protests from other religious groups e.g. Catholics?!

Whats your view phatpham?

Edited February 4, 2006 by Myles

[philothea]

The gutless newscasters fear to offend anyone who whines. I don't see them catering to Muslims any more than anyone else.

[rkwright]

Actually...

I think that this cartoon mess is a bit of the opposite. From how I understand it, the Danes ran the article first, and when the uproar in the Muslim world happened instead of backing down the rest of Europe ran the cartoon in their papers (Germany, France, Spain I heard). Is there more to the story Myles?

It seems that Europe is actually standing up for something this time.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Myles' date='Feb 3 2006, 07:03 PM']Given the gutless cowardess shown by many renowed newscasters throughout the Western world for [b]fear[/b] of offending Muslims is it fair to say that the Terrorists are winning? That [b]terror[/b] has truly [b]terrified [/b]the West to such an extent that people are quaking in their boots for fear of expressing the 'free speech' they seem to so cherish in the face of non-violent protests from other religious groups e.g. Catholics?!

Whats your view phatpham?
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For the libs that run the press maybe, but maybe their hate for Bush blinds them so that since Bush is the ememy the terrorist is their friend.

[philothea]

Further natter (after reading some of your other topics, Myles):

I think people become "politically correct" whey they [i]are[/i] biased, and they know it. At least that's my best explanation for a lot of nonsense.

In schools, it's the intellectuals why try to protect anyone from feeling hurt by bad grades. Why? Because they value intelligence over everything, they pity and despise stupid people, and they think it must be awful to get bad grades. They know that feeling this way is wrong, so they don't just acknowledge their own bias and move on. No, they have to try to fix the problem by making everything fair. Nevermind that this doesn't actually help anything.

Same with race, gender, age, weight, or any other category you could single out. It's the people who dislike some group -- while believing that's unfair -- that get all weird and sensitive. They feel guilty, so they have to do something, but they are denying their own reaction, so they can't gague a reasonable response anymore.

Likely, the newscasters being so wishy-washy actually fear and/or despise Muslims, as a group, but they feel like they shouldn't. So they overcompensate.

[Snarf]

The media isn't intrinsically liberal or conservative. It's intrinsically profit-oriented, and so it simply panders to what people want to hear. A quirk of human nature, people avoid what offends them, and so the lowest common denominator most often wins.

[jezic]

i don't necessarily think anyone wins in a war.

It just isn't pretty on either side.

[peacenluvbaby]

Which terrorists? Muslim? North Korean? African? American? Communist? Capitalist?

I think there is lots of terror in the world, gangs, criminals, civil wars, violent rebels like the LRA in Uganda who kidnap little children into their armies, but no one pays attention (for 20 years) Or maybe, the Mai-Mai in Congo who (it has been said) cannibalize their enemies....

Lots of terror, but I dont know if more terror or intentional aggravation of a situation (like the reprinting of cartoons) will really make anyone win.

PEACE!!!

[OLAM Dad]

[quote name='Snarf' date='Feb 4 2006, 02:55 PM']The media isn't intrinsically liberal or conservative.  It's intrinsically profit-oriented, and so it simply panders to what people want to hear.  A quirk of human nature, people avoid what offends them, and so the lowest common denominator most often wins.
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The media is not intrinsically liberal, they are predominantly liberal though. Given the fact that most American's are conservative that would suggest that they are not just trying to give the most people what they want to hear. They are idealogues with agendas. As long as we all know that though their influence is severely diminished.

Edited February 5, 2006 by OLAM Dad

[avemaria40]

I think that we are winning, we are making progress capturing al-Quaeda terrrorists and I believe we can win this war. Our govn't can't solve problems for every country in the world but we can work hard against evil injustice.

[Myles Domini]

[quote]For let us not delude ourselves: it is violence, or the threat of violence, that has driven the decisions that have been made in the past week. At a time when reasonable dialogue is most needed, the supposed custodians of our democracy are allowing a gun to be held to its head.--extract from [url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/02/05/dl0501.xml"]Democracy has a gun held to its head [/url]
[/quote]

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4683002.stm"]Pressure on police over protest [/url] :applause:

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Myles' date='Feb 5 2006, 08:42 AM'][url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4683002.stm"]Pressure on police over protest [/url] :applause:
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[desertwoman]

I'm undecided because Idon't beleive that it is anything that we can perse win. Terrorism comes in all shapes and forms, and the bad thing is is if you kill the "leader," he/she becomes a hereo and somebody else takes the place.

As long as somebody fears another and believes that violent means are the only way to be heard and respected, it will continue.

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Myles' date='Feb 3 2006, 09:03 PM']Given the gutless cowardess shown by many renowed newscasters throughout the Western world for [b]fear[/b] of offending Muslims is it fair to say that the Terrorists are winning? That [b]terror[/b] has truly [b]terrified [/b]the West to such an extent that people are quaking in their boots for fear of expressing the 'free speech' they seem to so cherish in the face of non-violent protests from other religious groups e.g. Catholics?!

Whats your view phatpham?
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Yes they are winning for exactly the reason stated. We are afraid to offend Muslims because they stand their ground and fight. We live ini a society of civil discourse. They live on our society and won't play by the rules of the society in which they live. It is only a few cartoons and look at what they are doing!!!

Although I find I must disagree with their tactics, I must admire their stand. I few years ago when an art exhibit opened in New York - funded by federal money no less - the media called the Catholic League whiners. Why? Because they complained about a piece of "art" that was a crucifix in a urine sample. Not much was done about it but I think it was removed about a month later. I think that is a far greater offense than just some ink cartoons. We as Catholic and Christians didn't do much of anything to defend our faith and therefore we are weak. I think this analogy can be extended to the current situation. We, who refuse to stand for what we believe, will lose it. Europe please take note.

[sraf]

[quote name='rkwright' date='Feb 3 2006, 06:57 PM']Actually...

I think that this cartoon mess is a bit of the opposite.  From how I understand it, the Danes ran the article first, and when the uproar in the Muslim world happened instead of backing down the rest of Europe ran the cartoon in their papers (Germany, France, Spain I heard).  Is there more to the story Myles?

It seems that Europe is actually standing up for something this time.
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'Standing up for something' and deliberately inciting the anger of a particular group are not the same thing. In my eyes, it was foolish and mean of the European articles to run those cartoons again, akin to third graders who notice that another classmate gets irritated by the sound of crumpling paper, so the third graders crumple up paper all the time to get the fellow classmate annoyed. It's mean and childish.

Nowhere in Catholic teaching do we say "THOU SHALT NOT place an image of Christ in a urine sample.' But the Islamic religion does not approve of drawings of any people at all in religious works. The idea is that drawing a person for religious art is too similar to trying to make humans a la God. Silly, yes, but that's what they believe (hey, we believe that a cracker is Jesus. Silly is in the eye of the beholder). That's why they have such lovely arabesques and geometrical designs. Cartoons insulting Mohammed are insulting to Arabs in a way that very little is insulting to Catholics.

And if terrorists are winning at all, it's the ones who are sitting in the high offices right at home.

[Myles Domini]

[quote name='sraf' date='Feb 5 2006, 05:19 PM']'Standing up for something' and deliberately inciting the anger of a particular group are not the same thing. In my eyes, it was foolish and mean of the European articles to run those cartoons again, akin to third graders who notice that another classmate gets irritated by the sound of crumpling paper, so the third graders crumple up paper all the time to get the fellow classmate annoyed. It's mean and childish.

Nowhere in Catholic teaching do we say "THOU SHALT NOT place an image of Christ in a urine sample.' But the Islamic religion does not approve of drawings of any people at all in religious works. The idea is that drawing a person for religious art is too similar to trying to make humans a la God. Silly, yes, but that's what they believe (hey, we believe that a cracker is Jesus. Silly is in the eye of the beholder). That's why they have such lovely arabesques and geometrical designs. Cartoons insulting Mohammed are insulting to Arabs in a way that very little is insulting to Catholics.

And if terrorists are winning at all, it's the ones who are sitting in the high offices right at home.
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If you believe that Jesus' command to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind and will doesn't cover desecrating images of Christ I'd hate to see how you treat your loved ones friend. You might not be offended when sacred things are made a mockery of but I for one am.

[Socrates]

[quote name='sraf' date='Feb 5 2006, 11:19 AM']Nowhere in Catholic teaching do we say "THOU SHALT NOT place an image of Christ in a urine sample.' [right][snapback]876288[/snapback][/right]
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Someone needs to learn their Catholic teaching!

Catholic teaching does indeed strongly condemn blasphemy, which is condemned by the Second Commandment: "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in Vain."
Among the Jews, blasphemy was considered the most serious of crimes, to be punished by death by stoning.

The Cathechism of the Catholic Church 2148:
[quote][i]Blasphemy [/i]is directly opposed to the second commandment.  It consists in uttering against God--inwardly or outwardly--words of hatred, reproach or defiance; in speaking ill of God; in failing to respect him one's speech; in misusing God's name.  St. James condemns those "who blaspheme that honorable name [of Jesus] by which you are called." [b] The prohibition of blasphemy extends to language against Christ's Church, the saints, and sacred things.[/b] . . .

Blasphemy is contrary the respect due God and His holy name.  It is itself a grave sin.[/quote]
Displaying a crucifix (a sacred image of Christ) in a jar of piss, or any similar such works of "art," would most certainly qualify as blasphemy.

[Myles Domini]

I would also recommend Sraf reading the acts and decrees of [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3819.htm"]the Seventh Oecumenical Council[/url].

Edited February 5, 2006 by Myles

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

If the terrorists were winning there would be no progress in Iraq. If the terrorists were winning, they would have taken Iraq back over.

Are they winning? Absolutely not! Is it going to happen overnight? No. Is it going to be a slow ongoing process? Yes.

But they are definitely not winning.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='sraf' date='Feb 5 2006, 11:19 AM']'Standing up for something' and deliberately inciting the anger of a particular group are not the same thing. In my eyes, it was foolish and mean of the European articles to run those cartoons again, akin to third graders who notice that another classmate gets irritated by the sound of crumpling paper, so the third graders crumple up paper all the time to get the fellow classmate annoyed. It's mean and childish.

Nowhere in Catholic teaching do we say "THOU SHALT NOT place an image of Christ in a urine sample.' But the Islamic religion does not approve of drawings of any people at all in religious works. The idea is that drawing a person for religious art is too similar to trying to make humans a la God. Silly, yes, but that's what they believe (hey, we believe that a cracker is Jesus. Silly is in the eye of the beholder). That's why they have such lovely arabesques and geometrical designs. Cartoons insulting Mohammed are insulting to Arabs in a way that very little is insulting to Catholics.

And if terrorists are winning at all, it's the ones who are sitting in the high offices right at home.
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I find it unbelievably and incredibly mind-boggling how you seem to be completely disregarding a Christian's right to be offended by something like urine Christ art -- and at the same time, your heart bleeds for muslims being offended by what these newspapers are doing. I've heard many responses to this ordeal, but I've never heard such a backwards response like this one.

Christians ALSO have every right to take offense at what they view as sacred being desecrated. And hey, at least even our own extremists have moved beyond torching an embassy with firebombs or threatening artists with death.