Cow of Shame Posted February 7, 2006 Posted February 7, 2006 It was only sinful if they forgot to use those little cocktail umbrellas
Church Punk Posted February 7, 2006 Posted February 7, 2006 I dont think it was. It sure was good for buisness here in Windsor though! Part of the cities history!
Resurrexi Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 Prohibition was EVIL! Drinking is NOT BAD when done in moderation. Drinking is only bad when you get drunk! It is INSANE how some people demonize drinking, making it sound as if someone who has a beer once a week is evil even if he is a good person. The same goes for smoking.
jezic Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 there was a stock of wine and other alcoholic drinks kept in the white house during this time ....
ironmonk Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 Breaking the law, unless it goes against God's law, is a sin. Drinking alcohol during prohibition was a sin if it was illegal to drink it. Was it illegal to sell it or to drink it? God Bless, ironmonk
Resurrexi Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 [quote]Breaking the law, unless it goes against God's law, is a sin. Drinking alcohol during prohibition was a sin if it was illegal to drink it. Was it illegal to sell it or to drink it? God Bless, ironmonk[/quote] no alchohol DOES go against God's law. You MUST have wine for the Mass, and one of the traditions of St John's day is to have a bottle of wine blessed and add some cloves to it. It's called "St. John's Love"
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 8, 2006 Author Posted February 8, 2006 They actually made an exception for booze in the CC back then.. But that's sorta off topic to the main point of this thread. I'd sorta like more of a reason why it was not bad than "just cause". I always thought it was in the CC sinful to break the law, which is reinforced by the fact that Iron who knows a lot about hte CC says that it's sinful, yet you all are saying it's not. That all the more reason for you to state why it's not with more explaination.
Cow of Shame Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 7 2006, 08:13 PM']Prohibition was EVIL! [/quote] You'd think that you'd get a bit more fresh air, out in Kansas....
crazymaine catholic Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 as much as i would like to say it's ok for people to drink in moderation, regardless of legal age, considering the catechism, i would probably have to say that yes, drinking alcohol if it's prohibited would be wrong. i should use myself as an example. i never drank until i was 21, which was last june. yeah, i have to say drinking when it's illegal is sinful.
sidemunch88 Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 7 2006, 06:38 PM']Breaking the law, unless it goes against God's law, is a sin. Drinking alcohol during prohibition was a sin if it was illegal to drink it. Was it illegal to sell it or to drink it? God Bless, ironmonk [right][snapback]879544[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Please Ironmonk, tell me where the government gets the right to tell me what to eat and drink? This was just a puritanical abuse of the government's power.
ironmonk Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 7 2006, 08:46 PM']no alchohol DOES go against God's law. You MUST have wine for the Mass, and one of the traditions of St John's day is to have a bottle of wine blessed and add some cloves to it. It's called "St. John's Love" [right][snapback]879557[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Bro, "No alcohol" does not go against God's law. sidemunch88, It doesn't matter if the government is abusive to us, we are to submit ourselves to those in authority... it is God that allows them to have power. If we suffer unjustly then we will have reward in Heaven. [b]Romans 13:1 [/b] Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. [b]2 [/b]Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves. [b]3 [/b]For rulers are not a cause of fear to good conduct, but to evil. Do you wish to have no fear of authority? Then do what is good and you will receive approval from it, [b]4 [/b]for it is a servant of God for your good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword without purpose; it is the servant of God to inflict wrath on the evildoer. [b]5 [/b]Therefore, it is necessary to be subject not only because of the wrath but also because of conscience. [b]6 [/b]This is why you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. [b]7 [/b]Pay to all their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, toll to whom toll is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due. God Bless, ironmonk
ironmonk Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 more... [quote][url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect1chpt2art2.htm"]http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect1chpt2art2.htm[/url] I. Authority 1897 "Human society can be neither well-ordered nor prosperous unless it has some people invested with legitimate authority to preserve its institutions and to devote themselves as far as is necessary to work and care for the good of all."15 By "authority" one means the quality by virtue of which persons or institutions make laws and give orders to men and expect obedience from them. 1898 Every human community needs an authority to govern it.16 The foundation of such authority lies in human nature. It is necessary for the unity of the state. Its role is to ensure as far as possible the common good of the society. 1899 The authority required by the moral order derives from God: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."17 1900 The duty of obedience requires all to give due honor to authority and to treat those who are charged to exercise it with respect, and, insofar as it is deserved, with gratitude and good-will. Pope St. Clement of Rome provides the Church's most ancient prayer for political authorities:18 "Grant to them, Lord, health, peace, concord, and stability, so that they may exercise without offense the sovereignty that you have given them. Master, heavenly King of the ages, you give glory, honor, and power over the things of earth to the sons of men. Direct, Lord, their counsel, following what is pleasing and acceptable in your sight, so that by exercising with devotion and in peace and gentleness the power that you have given to them, they may find favor with you."19 1901 If authority belongs to the order established by God, "the choice of the political regime and the appointment of rulers are left to the free decision of the citizens."20 The diversity of political regimes is morally acceptable, provided they serve the legitimate good of the communities that adopt them. Regimes whose nature is contrary to the natural law, to the public order, and to the fundamental rights of persons cannot achieve the common good of the nations on which they have been imposed. 1902 Authority does not derive its moral legitimacy from itself. It must not behave in a despotic manner, but must act for the common good as a "moral force based on freedom and a sense of responsibility":21 A human law has the character of law to the extent that it accords with right reason, and thus derives from the eternal law. Insofar as it falls short of right reason it is said to be an unjust law, and thus has not so much the nature of law as of a kind of violence.22 1903 Authority is exercised legitimately only when it seeks the common good of the group concerned and if it employs morally licit means to attain it. If rulers were to enact unjust laws or take measures contrary to the moral order, such arrangements would not be binding in conscience. In such a case, "authority breaks down completely and results in shameful abuse."23 1904 "It is preferable that each power be balanced by other powers and by other spheres of responsibility which keep it within proper bounds. This is the principle of the ‘rule of law,' in which the law is sovereign and not the arbitrary will of men."24[/quote] [quote]The duties of citizens [url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2.htm"]http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2.htm[/url] 2238 Those subject to authority should regard those in authority as representatives of God, who has made them stewards of his gifts:43 "Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution. . . . Live as free men, yet without using your freedom as a pretext for evil; but live as servants of God."44 Their loyal collaboration includes the right, and at times the duty, to voice their just criticisms of that which seems harmful to the dignity of persons and to the good of the community. 2239 It is the duty of citizens to contribute along with the civil authorities to the good of society in a spirit of truth, justice, solidarity, and freedom. The love and service of one's country follow from the duty of gratitude and belong to the order of charity. Submission to legitimate authorities and service of the common good require citizens to fulfill their roles in the life of the political community. 2240 Submission to authority and co-responsibility for the common good make it morally obligatory to pay taxes, to exercise the right to vote, and to defend one's country: Pay to all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.45 [Christians] reside in their own nations, but as resident aliens. They participate in all things as citizens and endure all things as foreigners. . . . They obey the established laws and their way of life surpasses the laws. . . . So noble is the position to which God has assigned them that they are not allowed to desert it.46 The Apostle exhorts us to offer prayers and thanksgiving for kings and all who exercise authority, "that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way."47 2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him. Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants' duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens. 2242 The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel. Refusing obedience to civil authorities, when their demands are contrary to those of an upright conscience, finds its justification in the distinction between serving God and serving the political community. "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."48 "We must obey God rather than men":49 When citizens are under the oppression of a public authority which oversteps its competence, they should still not refuse to give or to do what is objectively demanded of them by the common good; but it is legitimate for them to defend their own rights and those of their fellow citizens against the abuse of this authority within the limits of the natural law and the Law of the Gospel.50 2243 Armed resistance to oppression by political authority is not legitimate, unless all the following conditions are met: 1) there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights; 2) all other means of redress have been exhausted; 3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders; 4) there is well-founded hope of success; and 5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution.[/quote] God Bless, ironmonk
Mercy me Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 [quote name='sidemunch88' date='Feb 8 2006, 12:05 AM']Please Ironmonk, tell me where the government gets the right to tell me what to eat and drink? This was just a puritanical abuse of the government's power. [right][snapback]879828[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I am not Ironmonk but I can answer your question. FYI - the government gets the right to tell you what to eat and drink from [color=red]you[/color]. This is why voting is such an important duty. As to your opinion that it was a "purtitanical abuse of the government's power" which I agree with you on, the [url="http://www.nccbuscc.org/catechism/text/pt3sect1chpt2art2.htm"]CCC 1898-1900[/url] speaks to the need for community authority and our duty as Christians to obey it. Ironmonk was correct when he said that we are not called to obey it if community authority contradicts God's law.
smeagol Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 (edited) [quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 7 2006, 10:22 PM']If we suffer unjustly then we will have reward in Heaven.[/quote] doesn't this idea directly contradict supporting the invasion of Iraq ? [quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 7 2006, 06:38 PM']Breaking the law, unless it goes against God's law, is a sin. [/quote] so women in Saudi Arabia shouldn't be able to drive? Edited February 8, 2006 by smeagol
Cow of Shame Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 [quote name='smeagol' date='Feb 8 2006, 01:40 AM']so women in Saudi Arabia shouldn't be able to drive? [right][snapback]879932[/snapback][/right] [/quote] EXACTLY. I mean, could you imagine the road repair costs from all those stupid women gettin' smote from heaven for driving? ...although, I suppose the Jeep market would skyrocket.... silver lining to everything, I always say
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