Catholicism & Capital Punishment

[qfnol31]

[quote name='avemaria40' date='Feb 13 2006, 02:59 PM']it actually costs less to keep a person alive than to execute them
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Unfortunately it can sometimes cost more lives to keep them alive than to put them to death too...

[Jaime]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Feb 13 2006, 03:00 PM']Unfortunately it can sometimes cost more lives to keep them alive than to put them to death too...
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You can't show that in modern society Zach

[Aloysius]

when will these liberal catholics ever learn?....


































supervillains don't need to have super-powers to be supervillains! when will you liberals ever learn??!!!

[qfnol31]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Feb 13 2006, 03:19 PM']You can't show that in modern society Zach
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I would try, but normally I'm ignored in my efforts, and I'd rather not cause more arguments.

[qfnol31]

However, if you want to read some on this, you may go to:

[url="http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,17683231%255E1702,00.html"]http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/st...55E1702,00.html[/url]

They have a story about quite a few people killed in a fight.

[qfnol31]

Und:

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4395106.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4395106.stm[/url]

[qfnol31]

Last one:

[url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/09/yemen.navy/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/09/...navy/index.html[/url]

[Jaime]

And the total of articles found in US prisons?


Survey says ZERO

[qfnol31]

We didn't say America.

[Jaime]

First lines of the article [quote]Among the major nations of the Western world, the [b]United States is singular in still having the death penalty. After a five-year moratorium, from 1972 to 1977, capital punishment was reinstated in the United States courts.[/b][/quote]

We are talking about the us

[qfnol31]

Where in our conversation did US come up? I believe that we were talking about modern society, since that's what you asked.

I in no way implied (though I still think it true) that America was our only discussion.

[Aloysius]

you cannot reduce this to broad statistics to prove your point, it's fallacious resoning. if x murderer goes on to kill others after being imprisoned lifelong, then we can say x murderer ought to have been executed. there is no such thing as x% of murderers ought to be executed because x% of murderers go on to kill x% of people x% of the time... but that's the line of reasoning you're trying to impose upon it.

that's why i like to stay away from "rare if practically non-existant" in actual discussion... because it's so general and ambiguous. it is always case by case

that is also why you cannot pull up statistics from the US and statistics from the UK and compare them to decide whether capital punishment stops murderers from killing after imprisonment. People are not numbers.

[qfnol31]

Since you want to talk about America, though, here you are.

[url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/04/saturday/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/04/saturday/index.html[/url]
[url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/16/prison.escape.ap/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/16/prison.escape.ap/index.html[/url]

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Feb 13 2006, 03:40 PM']you cannot reduce this to broad statistics to prove your point, it's fallacious resoning.  if x murderer goes on to kill others after being imprisoned lifelong, then we can say x murderer ought to have been executed.  there is no such thing as x% of murderers ought to be executed because x% of murderers go on to kill x% of people x% of the time... but that's the line of reasoning you're trying to impose upon it.

that's why i like to stay away from "rare if practically non-existant" in actual discussion... because it's so general and ambiguous.  it is always case by case
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I wanted to say this to show that money isn't the only factor in it...that sometimes lives-wise it's more costly than others to keep a person alive. I really don't want to use statistics...but I did kinda want to show that, too, is a factor.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Feb 13 2006, 03:41 PM']Since you want to talk about America, though, here you are. 

[url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/04/saturday/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/04/saturday/index.html[/url]
[url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/16/prison.escape.ap/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/16/prison.escape.ap/index.html[/url]
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I think he was trying to, as I argued against, say that if this still happens in a country with the death penalty then the death penalty doesn't stop murderers from killing after being imprisoned. As I said, it is fallacious reasoning.

[Jaime]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Feb 13 2006, 03:41 PM']Since you want to talk about America, though, here you are. 

[url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/04/saturday/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/04/saturday/index.html[/url]
[url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/16/prison.escape.ap/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/16/prison.escape.ap/index.html[/url]
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Zach if you're going to throw out random articles, you're wasting my time.

The first article doesn't mention who the prisoners were that started the riot only who was killed by it

the second lists two prisoners that were both captured. No one had been hurt.


Could you at least read the articles first?

[qfnol31]

I did.

If it can happen, chances is that it will happen. Also, since one person was killed, regardless of who started it, a person died from another inmate...ergo, someone was probably a danger.

I only searched for any event in the last two months, and only showed anything that was dangerous.

This was for you to read to show that there are such situations which I would deem possibilities, but never to prove my case.

They're reflections...[quote]However, if you want to read some on this, you may go to:[/quote]

Edited February 13, 2006 by qfnol31

[Jaime]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Feb 13 2006, 03:56 PM']I did.

If it can happen, chances is that it will happen.  Also, since one person was killed, regardless of who started it, a person died from another inmate...ergo, someone was probably a danger.


They're reflections...
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So are you suggesting that all inmates be put to death so that no inmates are killed by other inmates?

[Aloysius]

no.... that's the problem with your generalizing statistical approach to this.

that means that any inmate that ends up killing another person after being sentenced to life in prison, ought to have been executed.

these incidents merely show that that can happen in today's society, it can happen that a criminal remains a threat to life even if imprisoned for life. therefore, it CAN be that there is a case in modern society when it was impossible to defend against the criminal.

hindsight's 20/20? sure, it can't be known for certain before the guy kills another person in prison which one couldn't be contained. so it's good to know that capital punishment is okay in principle because someone who has committed a grave crime always deserves it and would always justly receive it if it were given to him.

[Jaime]

Wrong Al

The reality is that if it can be proven that an inmate can be incarcerated to the point where (s)he is not a danger to innocent people, then we are obliged to do so.

That is the case in the US. While they aren't always protected against each other, they can be. And we have the most stringent standards in the world for detention.

That is the message from the Church.


Again with Supervillians, its a different case altogether