Era Might Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 Is this what you are thinking about in Evangelium Vitae: [quote]A particular problem of conscience can arise in cases where a legislative vote would be decisive for the passage of a more restrictive law, aimed at limiting the number of authorized abortions, in place of a more permissive law already passed or ready to be voted on. Such cases are not infrequent. It is a fact that while in some parts of the world there continue to be campaigns to introduce laws favouring abortion, often supported by powerful international organizations, in other nations-particularly those which have already experienced the bitter fruits of such permissive legislation-there are growing signs of a rethinking in this matter. In a case like the one just mentioned, when it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law, an elected official, whose absolute personal opposition to procured abortion was well known, could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and public morality. This does not in fact represent an illicit cooperation with an unjust law, but rather a legitimate and proper attempt to limit its evil aspects.[/quote] The principle of voting for an imperfect law would extend to imperfect candidates as well.
Era Might Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 Then-Cardinal Ratzinger wrote a letter to Cardinal McCarrick in 2004, noting among other things: [quote]When a Catholic does not share a candidate's stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.[/quote] "Proportionate" reasons would be the technical term for what I was getting at above.
Colleen Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 It must be because I live so close to Chicago that I keep reading this thread as "For all [i]Dem[/i] Bashers!" "Dem" meaning "them," that is. I'm so happy to see that the bill was passed in South Dakota.
Ash Wednesday Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 Era, thanks for that. I guess in those circumstances, considering the shaping of the Supreme Court and the partial birth abortion ban... I personally couldn't find sufficient proportionate reason, especially considering Kerry supported the war and tried to look "hawkish" like Bush did. Ugh. What a mess.
Ash Wednesday Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 P.S. Election 2008 smells like rotten eggs.
Aloysius Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 [quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Feb 23 2006, 09:27 PM']P.S. Election 2008 smells like rotten eggs. [right][snapback]896122[/snapback][/right] [/quote] unless we get either Santorum or Jeb Bush
Era Might Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 [quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Feb 23 2006, 10:24 PM']I guess in those circumstances, considering the shaping of the Supreme Court and the partial birth abortion ban... I personally couldn't find sufficient proportionate reason, especially considering Kerry supported the war and tried to look "hawkish" like Bush did. [right][snapback]896116[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I couldn't either.
Socrates Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Feb 23 2006, 07:57 PM']This would be a good time to mention that this bill is truly prolife as opposed to Bush's views on abortion. [right][snapback]896082[/snapback][/right] [/quote] As far as I know, Bush is not opposing this bill. If he does, shame on him - but that is not the issue at the moment. I can guarantee most prominent Dems will vehemently oppose it, though.
jezic Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 um, just so you know this bill has a ways to go yet. Conference committee and then the governor's desk. Then the ACLU will file a lawsuit.
Ash Wednesday Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 I can't speak for the conference committee, but S.D. Governor Mike Rounds is pro-life under all circumstances. Not surprisingly, he's also Catholic. No doubt that the ACLU will pee their pants if this gets through.
Jaime Posted February 24, 2006 Author Posted February 24, 2006 [quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 23 2006, 09:37 PM']As far as I know, Bush is not opposing this bill. If he does, shame on him - but that is not the issue at the moment. I can guarantee most prominent Dems will vehemently oppose it, though. [right][snapback]896155[/snapback][/right] [/quote] As far as you know, Kerry is not opposing the bill either. It doesn't matter who is against the bill. People can be as vehement as they want but the state is legislating itself.
Sarah_JC Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 [quote name='Colleen' date='Feb 23 2006, 08:13 PM']It must be because I live so close to Chicago that I keep reading this thread as [b]"For all [i]Dem[/i] Bashers!" [/b] "Dem" meaning "them," that is. I'm so happy to see that the bill was passed in South Dakota. [right][snapback]896109[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That's that I thought too... [i]because I live close to Chicago???[/i]
jezic Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 The governor might sign it, but i would guess the ACLU has their legal briefing ready already and will file it the moment that he does. This could get interesting.
Jaime Posted February 24, 2006 Author Posted February 24, 2006 [quote name='jezic' date='Feb 24 2006, 11:12 AM']The governor might sign it, but i would guess the ACLU has their legal briefing ready already and will file it the moment that he does. This could get interesting. [right][snapback]896614[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Oh it will get interesting. That's its intention. They WANT a court case. That's the whole purpose of the legislation is to get it to the Supreme Court
jezic Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 yes, but it would be nice if it coudl take effect before a very prolonged court battle. If the ACLU thinks they will loose, they will do everything to make it take forever anyway.
Jaime Posted February 24, 2006 Author Posted February 24, 2006 [quote name='jezic' date='Feb 24 2006, 11:28 AM']yes, but it would be nice if it coudl take effect before a very prolonged court battle. If the ACLU thinks they will loose, they will do everything to make it take forever anyway. [right][snapback]896628[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well I don't know about the ACLU gearing up (probably) but PP is definitely ready to file a lawsuit. The more they fight, the more it gets in the spotlight. And if its signed into law, it will stay law until the appeals are used up. There is absolutely no downside to this and it could change everything We want a fight We want the ACLU to be loud We want PP to scream about it every night on the news!! All of these things will only help us!!
zwergel88 Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 this is awesome. Democrats are soo cool!!!! I hate to say I told you so.
Sojourner Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 Apparently they're thinking through how to pay for all this if everything proceeds as planned ... they may be accepting private donations.
Ash Wednesday Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 [quote name='zwergel88' date='Feb 24 2006, 01:24 PM']this is awesome. Democrats are soo cool!!!! I hate to say I told you so. [right][snapback]896755[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You don't have to. Do you think that Democrats that are pro-choice are also "soo cool"? The party at large still has serious problems and there's no sense in saying they are the "better" party. Anybody that believes such is blind. I love it. ONE Democrat decides to spearhead a pro-life bill, and now the whole board on phatmass is supposed to throw a big flippin' party.
Jaime Posted February 26, 2006 Author Posted February 26, 2006 [quote]I love it. ONE Democrat decides to spearhead a pro-life bill, and now the whole board on phatmass is supposed to throw a big flippin' party. [/quote] Ummm Yeah!! Huge party!!
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