SEPARATE SPANISH MASSES

[OP_MOM]

There are a number of parishes in my archdiocese that celebrate a weekly Spanish Mass. At first my reaction to the Mass was positive. After all, shouldn’t the Mass be for everyone?

However, since its inception, I have come to view the Spanish Mass in a different way, and worry that it could actually be a means of keeping many people from fully joining the activities of the parish. Although unintentional, it seems to polarize the Hispanic community, slowing down what would be a natural assimilation into not just the parish, but our American culture. In addition, because not all parishes offer the Spanish Mass, it tends to draw its congregation from a wider geographic area, thus preventing them from becoming an integral part of their home parishes. To me, this doesn’t seem to be a favor to anyone.

In the 19th century, when immigrants were entering the U.S. in record numbers, while this type of polarization wasn’t completely unknown, (we still have many ethnic churches) it posed less of a problem because at least all Masses were celebrated in Latin. Until a new citizen was comfortable speaking English, they could take comfort in knowing that they shared a common bond with other Americans through the Catholic Church. People of all languages shared the Sacrifice of the Mass together. I believe (strictly conjecture on my part ) that being forced together helped many immigrants find the common ground that unites us today.

In my opinion, it would be more beneficial to the Hispanic community if we welcomed them into our parishes through the general assembly rather than having separate Masses for them.

I’m sure that there are many points of view on this issue and I’d be happy to hear a few.

[ruso]

During my stay in the USA, go always to the mass in Spanish, it seems to me very positive, although one is due to integrate them in the rest of the activities of the parish.
The Hispanics we are mainly catholics, and if the church does not take care of them who will do. The protestants?.

[Era Might]

If I were abroad in, say, Hong Kong, I would really appreciate it if my parish offered an English Mass for the American population. It's nothing against Chinese Masses, I would just like to celebrate Mass in my mother tongue, and with others who share my heritage, if possible. I wouldn't want to just be "assimilated" into Chinese culture.

There has to be other ways to avoid the polarization you mention.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Mar 1 2006, 11:02 PM']If I were abroad in, say, Hong Kong, I would really appreciate it if my parish offered an English Mass for the American population. It's nothing against Chinese Masses, I would just like to celebrate Mass in my mother tongue, and with others who share my heritage, if possible. I wouldn't want to just be "assimilated" into Chinese culture.

There has to be other ways to avoid the polarization you mention.
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If you were abroad in, say, Hong Kong, would you be visiting there, or moving there with relative permanence?

[Era Might]

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='Mar 2 2006, 02:28 AM']If you were abroad in, say, Hong Kong, would you be visiting there, or moving there with relative permanence?
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Either way, I would like to retain my own American heritage.

[Aloysius]

whenever there is a mixed group of language speakers, it is the norm to say it in the language most common to both.

if some people speak English and some speak Spanish, the only common root of those two languages is Latin and as such the mass ought to be in Latin.

[Charms717RM1]

My parish offers English, Spanish, and the occasional bilingual mass. Lol, i was so confused at the bilingual mass- like they'd say the readings once in english and then again in spanish. But i don't think it polarizes our community. Granted there are people who go only to the spanish mass- but they do that mainly because it reminds them of where they come from, most of them speak english fluently. Sometimes some of my buddies will go to the spanish mass to brush up on their spanish also.

We had a parish carnival back in October and the Mexicans started cooking real Mexican food- not that cheesy Tex-Mex stuff. Wow, that stuff is so good! I'd rather that they retain their culture rather than become Americanized- those tacos, so very tasty and good for you, were so good that I'd hate to come back in 50 years and find out that no one remembers how to cook real Mexican food.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='ruso' date='Mar 2 2006, 12:50 AM']The Hispanics we are mainly catholics, and if the church does not take care of them who will do. The protestants?
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I agree... I think not having any Masses in Spanish at all would push people away from the Church rather than draw them closer. It's already tough enough being an immigrant... Most workplaces and schools are English-only and so most immigrants are aware that it is VERY important to know the local language. Obviously if I were living in a spanish-speaking country I would be expected to learn the language, so it is only fair that we expect people coming into this country to learn the dominant language.

But as far as the Church is concerned, it is not our responsibility to help people assimilate into a particular nationality. It is our responsibility to help people assimilate into the kingdom of God.

[quote name='Era Might' date='Mar 2 2006, 02:02 AM']If I were abroad in, say, Hong Kong, I would really appreciate it if my parish offered an English Mass for the American population. It's nothing against Chinese Masses, I would just like to celebrate Mass in my mother tongue, and with others who share my heritage, if possible. I wouldn't want to just be "assimilated" into Chinese culture.

There has to be other ways to avoid the polarization you mention.
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When I was working in New York City I loved going to Masses in different languages.... Spanish, Italian, Croation, etc. At the same time, I wouldn't want to do that every Sunday.

There have been religious orders + Catholic agencies set up to help people learn English and assimilate into American culture, and these are wonderful things. If people want to learn English, there are plenty of services out there to help them. But it's not our responsibility to force people to learn a language they don't care to learn.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Mar 2 2006, 07:02 AM']If I were abroad in, say, Hong Kong, I would really appreciate it if my parish offered an English Mass for the American population.
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One would think that wouldn't be a problem, there being a lot of Hong Kongers who understand English.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

I don't think a Spanish Mass itself can be polarizing, but some of the 'assimilation by non-assimilation' techniques (in other words, do what they're used to in their country so they'll become better integrated with our culture) used in modern times can cause a polarizing effect. For example, the parish that my in-laws go to has pretty much been designated as the hispanic parish for the diocese. While it has one of the highest concentrations of hispanics in the state, it's still only 10-15% of the parishoners. The new church they're building is designed to look like a spanish mission and most of the new ministries there are to reach out to a small part of the population. I know that we should reach out to everyone in our community, but having a hispanic parents group vs. a parents group seems to divide our community more than unite it. If the Spanish Masses are said in order to have hispanic people at one Mass and non-hispanics at another, it's not exactly done in a Christian spirit. Most ethnic churches in the past were that way because most of the people in an area who practiced Catholicism came from a single background. Irish, Italian, Polish, Chinese, etc. immigrants successfully integrated into American society in the past and we should allow them to naturally integrate into our society. It seems that the biggest proponents of providing ministries directed at a single ethnic group aren't of that ethnic group.

[photosynthesis]

i'd much rather go to a church that looks like a spanish mission than the church I grew up in, which looked like a flying saucer.

I wouldn' t mind going to a parish like that. My current parish is so boring and blah, most people are white, middle class and lukewarm in their faith. There are a lot of old ladies and people seem closed-off. On the contrary, there's a parish I really would rather join but they're not the nearest tabernacle. It's multi-ethnic, super orthodox with perpetual adoration.. there are fillipinos, hispanics, blacks, people from the caribbean. And they sing real Catholic hymns, not the breaking bread hymnal. *sigh* it makes me want to move just so i can go to the parish

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

I've been to that parish several times. It's not as vibrant as you think it is. And it's not as diverse as you probably think it is. And they sing cheesy modern hymns too.

[photosynthesis]

it's like, 100000000 times more awesomer than my parish that i go to normally. the parish isn't perfect or anything, but people in that church seem to actually know what their faith teaches. A lot of people at the parish my family goes to are in voice of the faithful. i can't change parishes because the rest of my family goes there and it would be weird for one member to be going to some other parish. not exactly a sign of unity in the church. but there's a lot of work to be done in terms of restoring authentic catholicism in the parish i go to

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Mar 3 2006, 12:07 AM']it's like, 100000000 times more awesomer than my parish that i go to normally.  the parish isn't perfect or anything, but people in that church seem to actually know what their faith teaches.  A lot of people at the parish my family goes to are in voice of the faithful.  i can't change parishes because the rest of my family goes there and it would be weird for one member to be going to some other parish.  not exactly a sign of unity in the church.  but there's a lot of work to be done in terms of restoring authentic catholicism in the parish i go to
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Wait, I'm not talking about the parish near you. I'm talking about the one my inlaws go to.

[photosynthesis]

do they go to a parish that's not the closest one to their house?

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

They go to the parish closest to their house. Basically, what happened is that two parishes were disolved and reformed into one parish. They had a beautiful church built over a hundred years ago, but it was too small for the new parish. Many of the parishoners are kindof upset with the bishop because a parishoner had died and left some nice land to be used for a new church. Since land cannot be left to parishes anymore, the diocese sold the land, bought some new land, and designated that their parish would be the 'hispanic parish' for north Alabama, despite the fact that most of the people there are not hispanic. They still don't have an actual church building. They built the school and family life center first and they hold mass in the family life center.

[photosynthesis]

sounds weird... this parish that i was talking about wasn't designated by the archdiocese as an 'ethnic parish,' it just so happens that the area in which it is situated has a lot of different ethnic groups. it also is an area that is poorer than the one I live in, which is full of expensive cars and big houses.

the parish building is really interesting in its structure. everything is connected. The parish sanctuary is in the middle, and then there are classrooms, parish offices and other things you'd see in a Catholic school on either side. The adoration chapel is way up at the top.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='OP_MOM' date='Mar 2 2006, 12:18 AM']There are a number of parishes in my archdiocese that celebrate a weekly Spanish Mass. At first my reaction to the Mass was positive. After all, shouldn’t the Mass be for everyone?

However, since its inception, I have come to view the Spanish Mass in a different way, and worry that it could actually be a means of keeping many people from fully joining the activities of the parish. Although unintentional, it seems to polarize the Hispanic community, slowing down what would be a natural assimilation into not just the parish, but our American culture. In addition, because not all parishes offer the Spanish Mass, it tends to draw its congregation from a wider geographic area, thus preventing them from becoming an integral part of their home parishes. To me, this doesn’t seem to be a favor to anyone.

In the 19th century, when immigrants were entering the U.S. in record numbers, while this type of polarization wasn’t completely unknown, (we still have many ethnic churches) it posed less of a problem because at least all Masses were celebrated in Latin. Until a new citizen was comfortable speaking English, they could take comfort in knowing that they shared a common bond with other Americans through the Catholic Church. People of all languages shared the Sacrifice of the Mass together. I believe (strictly conjecture on my part ) that being forced together helped many immigrants find the common ground that unites us today.

In my opinion, it would be more beneficial to the Hispanic community if we welcomed them into our parishes through the general assembly rather than having separate Masses for them.

I’m sure that there are many points of view on this issue and I’d be happy to hear a few.
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Both of the parishes I've attended have Spanish Masses. Although I'm not as up on the one I currently attend, the former one was almost evenly split between Spanish and English congregants. The parish attracted Spanish-speaking folks from all over the city, even though several other parishes also have Spanish services. The percentage at the newer one isn’t as high, but it’s fairly large suburban parish, whereas my former parish was a medium-sized urban church.

I don’t think having a Spanish Mass necessarily keeps people from participating fully in parish activities. On the contrary, I think it can provide a means for Spanish-speaking folks to gradually integrate with their English-speaking counterparts ... but this is provided that there is a genuine desire for such integration on both sides. I think most of us trend toward taking the path of least resistance, and let’s be honest: cross-cultural friendships are hard work, particularly if there’s a language barrier involved. In my former parish, the priest regularly made attempts to bring the Anglo and Hispanic congregations together through parish activities and on Holy Days. There was plenty of grousing from the English folks about bilingual services (much longer than English only) but it did get all of us in the same room, at least.

I think it’s a two-way street. If Spanish Masses have a polarizing effect in the church, why is that? I’ve gone to a few Spanish masses where I was the only white person present. I think just saying “you’re here, so smell of elderberries it up and adjust” may be OK for secular culture, but in the church that seems a little harsh. Is the common ground we’re looking for only for those who speak English well?

Besides, I don’t think we have to sit next to each other in the pew to share in the Sacrifice of the Mass. That common ground exists regardless of what church we sit in or what language we speak.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Mar 3 2006, 01:05 PM']Besides, I don’t think we have to sit next to each other in the pew to share in the Sacrifice of the Mass. That common ground exists regardless of what church we sit in or what language we speak.
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that's one of the things I love most about the Church... we're all in communion with one another even if we speak different languages.

[MissScripture]

I think that everyone should have to learn English when they come to America, to make life easier for them in the long run. However, because the Church is universal, I see no problem in having Mass in various languages. Prayer and worship is something that ought to be done in the language you feel comfortable with. I have a friend who comes from South Africa, so her first language is Afrikaans, but she speaks English fluently (better than a lot of Americans!) but she can't pray in English. She said it just doesn't come out right. She goes to Church in English, because she has no choice, but all of her private prayers, her Bible and all of that is in Afrikaans. It just makes sense that you'd want something as important as prayer/worship/Mass in the language of your heart.