Thuc Line and Old Catholic Consecrations....

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

are they valid?

[Cam42]

The Thuc Line consecrations are valid, but illicit. Much in the same way that Lefevbre's were valid, but illicit.

How do we know this? Because Pope John Paul II reconciled one of his bishops. The bishop's name was Alfred Seiwert-Fleige.

Although some argue that they are not valid, because of his mental stability....I disagree with that. I think that he knew what he was doing.

For most of his epsicopacy, he was disobedient and schismatic.....and that is a shame.

Although, I think it best to stop this discussion of sedevacantism right now, before we even get started.....it will cause nothing but trouble.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i totally agree. I just wanted an answer to that question. thanks Cam!


although many Bishops that were ordainded by Thuc are no longer Sedevacantists and are now "independent" but acknowledge Benedict XVI as the Pope.

sam

Edited March 5, 2006 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus

[Cam42]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 5 2006, 12:47 AM']i totally agree. I just wanted an answer to that question. thanks Cam!
although many Bishops that were ordainded by Thuc are no longer Sedevacantists and are now "independent" but acknowledge Benedict XVI as the Pope.

sam
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Even if they acknowledge Pope Benedict, they are still excommunicated and still suspended, unless they officially reconcile with the Church.

By the way, most who consider themselves "independent" are still sedevacantist. That is the reason for the terminology "independent."

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

that is true. But many independent priests are not sedes.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 5 2006, 09:07 AM']that is true. But many independent priests are not sedes.
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No, just schismatic.

[brendan1104]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Mar 5 2006, 11:29 AM']No, just schismatic.
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So all vaguses are in schism?

[Cam42]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Mar 5 2006, 06:31 PM']So all vaguses are in schism?
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Nope, just those who show a refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

Those who are ordained in the Thuc line are excommunicated and suspended, unless they have officially reconciled with Rome.

As for any other independent priest, if they show said refusal, then they are in schism. End of Story.....so are all vaguses in schism? If they don't submit to the pontiff, yes, they are in schism.

That is not opinion, that is fact.

[brendan1104]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Mar 5 2006, 06:48 PM']Nope, just those who show a refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

Those who are ordained in the Thuc line are excommunicated and suspended, unless they have officially reconciled with Rome.

As for any other independent priest, if they show said refusal, then they are in schism.  End of Story.....so are all vaguses in schism?  If they don't submit to the pontiff, yes, they are in schism.

That is not opinion, that is fact.
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How are all priests ordained by Thuc bishops automatically excommunicated?

Also, is CMRI's orders valid?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i think CMRI's orders are valid because their bishop(s) were consecrated by Thuc.

[brendan1104]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 5 2006, 07:05 PM']i think CMRI's orders are valid because their bishop(s) were consecrated by Thuc.
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Boy sam we really missed you... i've been the only trad... so hard, so much effort...

[Cam42]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Mar 5 2006, 06:52 PM']How are all priests ordained by Thuc bishops automatically excommunicated?

Also, is CMRI's orders valid?
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Because Thuc was excommunicated when he ordained them. By being ordained by an excommunicate, one is excommunicated. Also, being ordained without approval from Rome constitutes a schismatic act.

Bishop Pivarunas is of the Thuc line, therefore he is validly consecrated, however he is excommunicated and suspended. The reasoning behind this lies not only insofar as he is of the Thuc lineage and has not reconciled, but also because he holds the Chair of Peter to be vacant. That is a schimatic action.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Mar 5 2006, 06:08 PM']Boy sam we really missed you... i've been the only trad... so hard, so much effort... 
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I bet


you should come to Fisheaters some time.


Sam