Interesting Article

[Laurentina1975]

I found this and was aghast!

Interesting article though.

[url="http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/blog/post/index/96/Point-of-Clarification"]Article.[/url]

[magnificat]

Ummm...interesting. I'm not sure what to make of it since I couldn't actually find the article, just the replies to it.

What's more frightening is if you click on the link that is refered to in the first reply and then check out the community she is joining....Check it out: [url="http://www.csjp.org/index.html"]CSJP[/url]

Warning: Not for the faint of heart...apparently Zen is a ministry of Christ and the Church now

[benedictaj]

How...............................................................................................odd!

[magnificat]

Odd would be one way of putting it, I think.

I guess it's a bit of a reality check that there are people who do have a slightly confused conception of the Church. It's sometimes easy to forget in our little online haven here that we are kinda radical to the world.

[benedictaj]

Well, they sound like the general Catholic population down here. I'm lucky to have a crowd of "real life" friends who have similar views as me (including even more conservative lol. Not that we should use political terms to define religious orthodoxy. )

[Laurentina1975]

I know it made me kind of sickly..

[HisChild]

[quote name='magnificat' date='Mar 13 2006, 08:41 PM']Ummm...interesting.  I'm not sure what to make of it since I couldn't actually find the article, just the replies to it. 

What's more frightening is if you click on the link that is refered to in the first reply and then check out the community she is joining....Check it out:  [url="http://www.csjp.org/index.html"]CSJP[/url] 

Warning:  Not for the faint of heart...apparently Zen is a ministry of Christ and the Church now 
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That 'community' is scary. That's all I'm going to say. . .

[ruso]

I already said it in another commentary, I do not believe that are possible to divided the vocations religius in liberals and conservatives.
The vocations are only of God, no of the congregations, another subject is that people with beliefs more orthodox are more open to follow that call, of that I am safe.
The conclusion that coat of this article is the division between Catholics, in the same countrie or diocese or town, even within the same congregation many differences can happen.
But who has vocation and decides to follow it surpassed everything, be that person liberal or conservative.
A girl that I know when she enter a congregation, they had to send she to Sudamerica because your father was in against ( congrats for your generosity Olan dad). The sisters of this congregation in Spain do not use habits but in south America yes and are more conservative, when she arrive they gave him your postulant uniform, white blouse and grey skirt, in the beginning she protest and saw that the clothes were not the only difference, nevertheless going ahead and profesed the last year (its father was, which made to she very happy).

Edited March 14, 2006 by ruso

[Laurentina1975]

You must not have read the posts (articles).

[photosynthesis]

I saw this too. I think this phenomenon has to do with liberalism itself. The liberals like to de-emphasize the differences between men and women and priests + laypeople. They like to think that everyone is equal in all ways. They don't understand that we are in the Kingdom of God, not the Democracy of God, and His ways are not like our ways. Throughout the Bible, we see God making all kinds of distinctions among people, and if we are going to follow Him we have to do so according to His ways.

Also, liberals have a poor understanding of human sexuality. If people understand sexuality to be a commodity, something that all people have an equal right to experience regardless of the nature of their relationships, then celibacy is not going to be valued as a Godly way of life. If these people have no respect for celibacy, then it's going to be hard for them to get vocations. I don't really have a problem with this, since we don't need liberal religious orders going out and spreading false teachings.

[brandelynmarie]

Might I recommend Pope JPII's Theology of the Body? I've been listening to Christopher West on CD's & he really brings home the differences & sacredness of male & female...Sometimes I think the liberal church is losing a grip on that...Peace, Brandelyn

[be_thou_my_vision]

Just out of curiosity, what does this community say about celibacy?

[Laurentina1975]

[quote name='brandelynmarie' date='Mar 15 2006, 08:30 AM']Might I recommend Pope JPII's Theology of the Body?  I've been listening to  Christopher West  on CD's & he really brings home the differences & sacredness of male & female...Sometimes I think the liberal church is losing a grip on that...Peace, Brandelyn
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Most excellent read! I reccomend it as well!

[magnificat]

[quote name='be_thou_my_vision' date='Mar 15 2006, 09:13 AM']Just out of curiosity, what does this community say about celibacy?
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from their website...
[quote] Consecrated Celibacy
Responding to God who first loved us, we accept the gift of celibacy to proclaim with our lives the transforming power of God's love. We freely commit ourselves by vow to a life of celibate chastity lived in community for the sake of God's reign of love and peace...

This vow reminds us that our charism of peace calls us to challenge relationships of domination and manipulation and to work toward the reconciliation of divisions which hinder the solidarity of the human community...
[/quote]

[shortnun]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Mar 15 2006, 01:13 AM']I saw this too.  I think this phenomenon has to do with liberalism itself.  The liberals like to de-emphasize the differences between men and women and priests + laypeople.  They like to think that everyone is equal in all ways.  They don't understand that we are in the Kingdom of God, not the Democracy of God, and His ways are not like our ways.  Throughout the Bible, we see God making all kinds of distinctions among people, and if we are going to follow Him we have to do so according to His ways.

Also, liberals have a poor understanding of human sexuality.  If people understand sexuality to be a commodity, something that all people have an equal right to experience regardless of the nature of their relationships, then celibacy is not going to be valued as a Godly way of life.  If these people have no respect for celibacy, then it's going to be hard for them to get vocations.  I don't really have a problem with this, since we don't need liberal religious orders going out and spreading false teachings.
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Perhaps it would be helpful for us all to remember that using political terms to define people within our Church is not always helpful. And in this case, IMHO, it had lead to [i]gross overgeneralizations[/i]. Example: "All liberals have a poor understanding of human sexuality." People on every end of the political spectrum, as well as many inside the Church, have a poor understanding of human sexuality. It is certianly not limited to a specific demographic.

Furthermore, it does not appear as if this community has a lack of respect for the vow of celibacy. And it's not as if the information to make such a judgement could be found on their website alone. So please, let us not all jump to that conclusion. AND LEAST OF ALL, let us not be "pleased" that it appears as if they are not getting vocations.

I am filled with hope lately as it truly appears as if the tone of the comments on this board are those of respect. After all, it is not our place to judge religious men and women, or communities. And I do believe this intentional change has come about because of prayer and thoughtfulness in our posts.

[b]Heavenly Father, please let us not deteroriate further in our efforts. May Jesus Christ be an inspiration to all of us to go and proclaim the Gospel. And may the Holy Spirit guide our thoughts and our fingers in our responses.
Amen.[/b]

Edited March 15, 2006 by shortnun

[HisChild]

I don't see anywhere in anyone's post that we are "pleased" (quotes yours) that they are not getting vocations. If, by quoting Photo (and I hope that I am not stepping out of line, Photo, by interpreting what you wrote), you are referring to her post, she wrote that "[b]If[/b] these people have no respect for celibacy, then it's going to be hard for them to get vocations. I don't really have a problem with this, since we don't need liberal religious orders going out and spreading false teachings."

She's stating an opinion based on a supposition, not a fact.


BTW. . .Claire, was that your comment on their board? That was funny.

[shortnun]

[quote name='PCPA2Be' date='Mar 15 2006, 03:44 PM']I don't see anywhere in anyone's post that we are "pleased" (quotes yours) that they are not getting vocations.  If, by quoting Photo (and I hope that I am not stepping out of line, Photo, by interpreting what you wrote), you are referring to her post, she wrote that "[b]If[/b] these people have no respect for celibacy, then it's going to be hard for them to get vocations.  I don't really have a problem with this, since we don't need liberal religious orders going out and spreading false teachings." 

She's stating an opinion based on a supposition, not a fact. 
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Thank you PCPA2Be for clarifying my statement. Photo, please accept my apologies if you feel as if I put words in your mouth. Perhaps it is not in my authority to do so (as I am not a mod), I was just trying to promote harmony and respect for all.

God bless!

[photosynthesis]

it's all good.

it may sound like I"m stereotyping "liberal" religious orders, but I wasn't talking about it in a political sense. I was more referring to the "progressive" sisters and priests, like Fr. McBrien and Sr. Joan Chittister. The 55-year old nuns and priests that don't wear their habits and clerics, and try to spread the enneagram and the healing magic of crystals instead of the Gospel of Life.

A lot of these people have good intentions, and they do a lot in terms of helping the poor among us. However, many of them have a flawed understanding of Catholic social teaching. They think that it's only about peace and justice, and fighting poverty, but they don't defend the unborn. Also, the way a lot of these orders try to combat poverty, illness and other forms of human suffering is through promoting socialism, which is contrary to true Christian charity (see Pope Benedict XVI's new encyclical).

[Laurentina1975]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Mar 16 2006, 02:51 PM']it's all good.

The 55-year old nuns and priests that don't wear their habits and clerics, and try to spread the enneagram and the healing magic of crystals instead of the Gospel of Life.

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I couldn't help but seriously snicker at that.
OK, I almost fell on the floor laughing (and I am at work).


Hang on, let me pull out some sage grass to purify the aura on the thread...

[HisChild]

Edited March 16, 2006 by PCPA2Be