Validity of my confessions

[jasJis]

[quote name='Paladin' date='Mar 31 2006, 01:00 PM']Ain't that complicated.  When you confess, you gotta mean it, you gotta do the penance, and a priest hasta do it.  Amator Veritatas just likes to use fancy canon law words.  Nothing wrong with that.
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[/quote]I agree with that it's simpler than what AV wrote, but AV has more than the the simple 'gottas'.

[Amator Veritatis]

[quote]Sounds like the legal rules to a magic trick.
Did you kneel or sit in a chair? At what points and how often did you make the sign of the cross? What were the exact words of your act of contrition? Not sure? Got doubts? Buy a TAN booklet, read up and study, and go back to confession and try to get it right this time because the next thing you gotta buy won't be a booklet, it'll be a series of tapes for a small monthly fee of $9.99, with a new tape shipped every 7 weeks.[/quote]

Though I would not generally grace such remarks with a response, in some sense I feel obliged out of a sense of veracity to respond to this entry. Besides the obvious [i]non sequitur[/i] logical fallacy committed by your post by the implicit assertions that various acts pertain to validity when they, in fact, do not, [i]viz[/i]., regarding the posture of the penitent, the Signs of the Cross made by the penitent, you commit also the Straw Man fallacy by somehow asserting that the arguments I have presented are equivalent or comparable to the external acts described in your post. What I have said so far is merely a simplified form of the teaching of moral theologians, most notably in this case, S. Alphonsus Liguori. Your comparison of the purchase of an examination of conscience and booklet to aid in the making of good Confessions to a series of tapes with a monthly fee needs no refutation.

Edited March 31, 2006 by Amator Veritatis

[Amator Veritatis]

I did not realise that jasJis is a non-Catholic. With that being recognised, it would seem that a reasonable individual may trust whom he may--either a non-Catholic or a Catholic citing the teaching of a Doctor of the Church--regarding the proper principles concerning what constitutes the manner of making a good Confession.

[jasJis]

Dude,
Do you talk to you mom with that mouth? I'm not sure what you said, but I feel like I was diss'ed or something.
As a 'caveat' [kewl, huh?] please note the following:
"[b]Opinions and statements posted on this phorum are not meant to represent anything more than the uneducated, undocumented, and unfettered opinion of said poster. No warrenty of intelligence, education, or blood type of poster is made or intimated. It is assumed by poster that all parties reading said posts have a minimal ability to read the written work. All quotes, excerpts, and copy cat verbiage are not independently verified by any unbiased source and it is incumbent upon the reader to research and verify the veracity of said quotes, excerpts, and copy cat verbiage. Caution and fear must be exercised at all times. This poster assumes and accepts no liabilities for damages, harm, or misfortune that may befall the reader except for limitations as provided by the laws of the United States[/b]."

Edited March 31, 2006 by jasJis

[Mateo el Feo]

Hi jasJis,

I disagree with some of Amator Veritatis' posts; but, I'll post my disagreement later.

Just to jump off the thread's topic for a second...
[quote name='jasJis' date='Mar 31 2006, 01:30 PM']Sounds like the legal rules to a magic trick.
Did you kneel or sit in a chair?  At what points and how often did you make the sign of the cross?  What were the exact words of your act of contrition?  Not sure?  Got doubts?  Buy a TAN booklet, read up and study, and go back to confession and try to get it right this time because the next thing you gotta buy won't be a booklet, it'll be a series of tapes for a small monthly fee of $9.99, with a new tape shipped every 7 weeks.
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[/quote]
Should we scoff sacramental confession because there is a certain set of "rules" involved in its practice? Only some small subset of these rules are essentials. Kneeling vs. sitting in a chair? Clearly a non-essential.

How does the secular world compare?

From reading your posts, it seems that you work in construction. Certainly, you would agree that jurisdictions have an endless list of "rules" for the construction of a building. States, localities, and even HOAs regulate how buildings are built, and we--whether citizens or HOA members--are forced to comply. Do I need a lawyer? How about a PE or county inspector? What licensing does the construction company need? Should I submit my designs to the county? What range of blue paint shades are permitted by my HOA?

I suspect that you personally benefit by operating under the "magic rules" of construction law. You've probably got some license, like a PE, which allows you to serve your customers. This also prevents others who don't have the same piece of paper from underbidding you and taking away your work.

In any event, these construction rules help to make buildings in the US safer and better than buildings in many other countries...at least, that's my opinion. And while some laws seem quite arbitrary (e.g. I can't get a deck built without a permission slip from my neighbors), others are clearly made for my benefit (e.g. prohibitions against asbestos, structural standards, etc).

My beliefs are:
1) The world is full of rules.
2) In comparison to an secular endeavors, the "magic rules" of confession are extremely simple...no monthly audiotape club membership necessary.
3) Just as the world has a set of rules to be followed for building things like houses, the Church has sacraments to build up the soul.

Edited April 1, 2006 by Mateo el Feo

[jasJis]

Mateo,
Good analogys or metaphors or similies (homonyms?). I should have paid more attention.

But good points. I'm in a different type of construction and things are a bit different from what you describe, but it's workable.

And yes, there can be lot's of supplemental rules and regulations. I do both private and government work. But when building a building (which I don't do), you still have to mix mortar and put 1 block on top of another. It boils down to simple things. But if someone says that the motar must be mixed with an electric mixer in 1.3 yard increments, 275 revolutions, or the mortar is no good, then there may be a problem. Those specific rules can be broken or pointless because there are more than 1 way to mix mortar that will have the correct slump, adherence, and compressive strength. Additionally, even with perfect mortar, technique is important. too.

[Amator Veritatis]

Matthew the Ugly, your points seemed to have been rather effective. If you find the time, would you be so kind as to post your objections to my previous statements. Thank you.