My mom is an usher

[Sinner]

a woman usher came up to me and handed me a bulletin and french kissed me............ now that was too far. A handshake maybe, but the tongue thing was definitely too far.

[dimco926]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 26 2006, 04:17 PM']St. Paul says it is a shame for a woman to speak in church.
Women have no authority in the church and should not be given authority.

at one of my many parishes we have no pastor. but we have a woma "pastoral life director"

yuck. she runs everything and tried to shake my hand after mass. ( i did not let her)  no thanks.
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Since when is rudeness a virtue?
Politeness only applies to people you approve of?

[Era Might]

The Scriptures MUST be read in their cultural context. To do so in no way transgresses the inerrancy of Scripture. The literal sense of Scripture is not what the words say, but what the writer meant. It is the duty of the Church to discern whether the Sacred Writer was teaching a point of doctrine, or if his point was conditioned by the context of the early Church, and does not necessarily apply to the Church in every age.

For example, the Apostles decreed at the Council of Jerusalem:

[quote]It is the decision of the Holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.

--Acts 15[/quote]

Do you abstain "from meats of strangled animals"? Do you ask the butcher at the supermarket if the chicken was strangled before they killed it? No. Why? Because the decision of the Apostles was conditioned by their culture, and was not meant as a point of Divine Revelation.

So it is with the teaching on women. There is an element of doctrine, but the way St. Paul expressed himself, and the pastoral practice of the early Church, does not necessarily bind the Church in all ages, anymore than the judgement of Jerusalem does.

[Era Might]

The Scriptures MUST be read in their cultural context. To do so in no way transgresses the inerrancy of Scripture. The literal sense of Scripture is not what the words say, but what the writer meant. It is the duty of the Church to discern whether the Sacred Writer was teaching a point of doctrine, or if his point was conditioned by the context of the early Church, and does not necessarily apply to the Church in every age.

For example, the Apostles decreed at the Council of Jerusalem:

[quote]It is the decision of the Holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.

--Acts 15[/quote]

Do you abstain "from meats of strangled animals"? Do you ask the butcher at the supermarket if the chicken was strangled before they killed it? No. Why? Because the decision of the Apostles was conditioned by their culture, and was not meant as a point of Divine Revelation.

So it is with the teaching on women. There is an element of doctrine, but the way St. Paul expressed himself, and the pastoral practice of the early Church, does not necessarily bind the Church in all ages, anymore than the judgement of Jerusalem does.

[homeschoolmom]

That was so good, you had to say it twice. Preach it, brother...

[Anthony]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 26 2006, 04:21 PM']she was taking the position of the Priest. She was acting as a pastor. i was not going to condone that or support such madness by shaking her hand.
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I doubt very seriously she was trying to take the position of the priest. You acted very childishly by refusing to shake her hand. If she isn't celebrating Mass herself or giving a homily, she is not assuming the role of the priest. In what way could she possibly be doing so? If you don't like that parish, don't go. However, show some charity. Also, since you have such a firm understanding of Sacred Scripture, perhaps you know what God meant when He said, "Love Thy Neighbor." You really disrespected her and I think you owe her an apology for refusing to shake her hand.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Anthony' date='Mar 27 2006, 07:35 PM']I doubt very seriously she was trying to take the position of the priest.  You acted very childishly by refusing to shake her hand.  If she isn't celebrating Mass herself or giving a homily, she is not assuming the role of the priest.  In what way could she possibly be doing so?  If you don't like that parish, don't go.  However, show some charity.  Also, since you have such a firm understanding of Sacred Scripture, perhaps you know what God meant when  He said, "Love Thy Neighbor."  You really disrespected her and I think you owe her an apology for refusing to shake her hand.
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Her title is "Pastoral Life Director"

she is in esscense the pastor of our church. i do not owe her an apology. She Owes God an APology for disobeying his law.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 27 2006, 07:40 PM']Her title is "Pastoral Life Director"

she is in esscense the pastor of our church. i do not owe her an apology. She Owes God an APology for disobeying his law.
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A pastoral life director is NOT a priest. And YES you owe her an apology because you were rude. She was obviously appointed there by a competent authority, so you have no right to have bad manners, even if you disagree with her position.
Go stand in the corner.

[toledo_jesus]

I share EENS' disdain for pastoral coordinators/whatever. They smell of elderberries, they are usually women, and they try very hard to act as if they can pick up the slack caused by priest shortages. They can't. They are well-intentioned busy bodies. Often they have short, old lady hair.

That being said, they are put there by the bishop and the buck stops there.

[cmotherofpirl]

We don't have to like them, but there is nocall being rude to them.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Mar 27 2006, 10:01 PM']We don't have to like them, but there is nocall being rude to them.
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no, definitely not.

I prefer a frosty, polite attitude of dislike.

[missionseeker]

EENS
what can women do? (according to you)


can we even go to mass?
Can we mow the grass? or would that be too authoritative for you?

Can we say the responses - I mean we can't talk.

Can a woman help plan a fund raiser like a fair or Italian Dinner so that her kids can go on trips with their youth group? (to retreats)
(I'd like to see a man do it half as well- I really would. I know there are some who can but come on how many would do it?)

[dimco926]

This is where I get confused, well, one of the areas. This type of debate is why so many young people do not stay with their Catholic faith. The woman/mother of the family is the one normally responsible for getting the kids to and from religious education, getting the family to church and playing an active role in their children's activities. So it would make logical sense to have them involved in the church somehow. And yea, I have attended churches with female priest wanna-bees, and I didn't care for it and found a different parish. Some of the women can be busy-bodies, but for the most part, when you find a good parish, it is because everyone works well together and checks their egos at the door.

At our church, the mens' club consists of men in their late 60's with only one or two not collecting social security. The men's club is responsible for the fish frys, festivals, scolarships, and other events. However, what happens when more of them become too ill to do the great job that they do? The women, like myself and others, are stepping up to the plate because no one else will. Most of our lectures are female, most of the Eucharistic Ministers are female, and all the teachers, except for one, are female. We have a parent club run by young men, but they only do softball--once a year. Basically, if it weren't for the chicks working with the men, our parish would not be as big and as strong as it is. And with more and more young adults questioning why we do things the way that we do them, we need better answers than that is how the scripture was intrepreted centuries ago. Times change, attitudes change, and life changes as we grow as a society and I would think our faith would grow and change with it.

I have noticed a lot of young adults on this pforum, how many of you would be happy if we, as a society governed by our faith, kept the kids seen and not heard rule? I am sure most would not be happy because you do have a voice and that voice counts.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='dimco926' date='Mar 28 2006, 06:55 AM']I have noticed a lot of young adults on this pforum, how many of you would be happy if we, as a society governed by our faith, kept the kids seen and not heard rule?  I am sure most would not be happy because you do have a voice and [b]that voice counts.[/b]
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No way does a kid's voice count. Look at what we're doing to Tommy.

[dimco926]

except for the fact that after reading posts and learning from them, I should have used the term "young adult"

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='dimco926' date='Mar 28 2006, 09:57 PM']

except for the fact that after reading posts and learning from them, I should have used the term "young adult"
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wasted syllables. kids works fine. They [b]are [/b]kids...I'm 22. [b]I'm[/b] a young adult.

[dspen2005]

what are you trying to say??? haha