abortion

[dairygirl4u2c]

also add to this hypothetical that we'd know there'd be just as much liklihood of success in our war as their would be with a hypothetical war against Hitler.

Edited April 4, 2006 by dairygirl4u2c

[Lil Red]

what do you mean by 'if' ? last time i checked abortion [b]does[/b] kill thousands of innocent babies everyday

[Paladin]

I'm not familiar enough with Just War doctrine to make an informed decision.

My gut says maybe.

[Theoketos]

I want another two options,

Yes, with qualifications.

No, with qualifications.

If the one procurring the war was a legitimate authority, and it was the last resort, and the war was going to prevent more damage/more abortions then the war itself were the cause.

DG you only have some of the qualifications for a just war.

[dairygirl4u2c]

So no one's voting in this. Is it because they don't know that abortion and the hitler scenario are very similar, yet they are doing nothing? If no one responds, I don't know to assume otherwise.

[Peccator]

Please clarrify what is meant by "[i][b]would it be just to engage in war against those who procure abortion[/b]?[/i]"

Are you asking us whether we advocate/support an armed struggle against hose who procure abortion? I

[Theoketos]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Apr 4 2006, 01:36 PM']So no one's voting in this. Is it because they don't know that abortion and the hitler scenario are very similar, yet they are doing nothing? If no one responds, I don't know to assume otherwise.
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Except that my post before hand does allow you to know. If do not know to know otherwise it is vincibly.

Oh, and the ones, who are a legit authority and etc would and must have a reasonable chance of winning.

[AngelofJesus]

And who are "those". A sovereign nation or local abortion clinic?

[Tarcisius]

Basically its,do you think using physical force to stop abortion in the current situation is the correct thing to do, yes or no. I say Yes

[Paladin]

[quote name='Tarcisius' date='Apr 4 2006, 08:27 PM']Basically its,do you think using physical force to stop abortion in the current situation is the correct thing to do, yes or no. I say Yes
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But then does that make terrorists like Eric Rudolph, who bombed abortion mills, holy martyrs? I think this topic is definately something worth mulling over.

Edited April 5, 2006 by Paladin

[Socrates]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Apr 4 2006, 10:05 AM']also add to this hypothetical that we'd know there'd be just as much liklihood of success in our war as their would be with a hypothetical war against Hitler.
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If it were called by a legitimate authority and had a reasonable chance of success, absolutely!

The problem is that these two conditions do not currently exist.

There would have to be an organized army under the authority of a legitimate leader, and the victory would have to be able to deal a crushing blow which would render the abortionists completely defeated.

A bunch of individuals in the U.S. running around blowing stuff up would be unlikely to accomplish this. (Though I am aware some would disagree.)

[Amator Veritatis]

It would seem that no one can speculate until the qualification of what precisely is meant by "those who procure abortion" is made. In addition, because the phrase "those who procure abortion" almost necessarily reflects a group of individuals rather than a government or political state, the two scenarios are vastly different. That is not to say, however, that a war of some sort would not be justified. I have not yet voted and am waiting for the clarification by the author of the thread.

Edited April 5, 2006 by Amator Veritatis

[Era Might]

No.

First of all, you do not have the authority to wage war.

Second, waging war against pregnant women would kill their children. And waging war against un-pregnant women would not be justified, because you would not be defending anyone, you would be administering justice for a past sin, which is not yours to administer.

[quote]Love's not abortion
Of course
Love doesn't bomb clinics to make it finish
Love's not hate and
Love's not a cynic

--manCHILD from Mars ILL, "Love's Not"[/quote]

[Socrates]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Apr 4 2006, 08:39 PM']No.

First of all, you do not have the authority to wage war.

Second, waging war against pregnant women would kill their children. And waging war against un-pregnant women would not be justified, because you would not be defending anyone, you would be administering justice for a past sin, which is not yours to administer.
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I don't think anyone's talking about waging war [b]on women[/b], pregnant or unpregnant!

[uriel]

It seems to me there is a political system in place where we can and DO make a difference. The system might be slow for your tastes, but can be used to effectively stop abortion. When we have a morally legitimate way of stopping abortion it seems to me that killing abortion clinic operators would be a mortal sin.

[url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a4.htm"] CCC#1759[/url][i] "An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention" (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Dec. praec. 6). The end does not justify the means.[/i]

Edited April 5, 2006 by uriel

[styx chyx]

Here, here uriel, well said!

War is not the answer to anything.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Apr 4 2006, 10:44 PM']I don't think anyone's talking about waging war [b]on women[/b], pregnant or unpregnant! 
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Who "procures abortion" but women?

[Didacus]

I would condem no one who would use non-lethal force to stop a doctor from performing an abortion.

One murder does not justify another, thus to kill a doctor who performs abortions cannot be balnkly justified.

I would however, put to trial for murder everyone who took part in any abortion, and then apply the Catholic principal of the death penalty to each case.

[Cow of Shame]

...for a given value of "war"

[Socrates]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Apr 5 2006, 08:07 AM']Who "procures abortion" but women?
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The abortionist. The theoretical war would be against the abortionists, and the government that aids and allows abortion.

It is absurd to say that a war against abortion would necessitate deliberately killing women.