SSPX leader hopes Vatican will take "first step"

[Peccator]

Personally I don't mind who makes the first step...I simply want the schism ended!

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Tarcisius' date='Apr 4 2006, 07:29 PM']Rome should take the first step towards making things right because Rome took the first step away from right.
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What is that supposed to mean? Axplain.

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Peccator' date='Apr 5 2006, 09:47 AM']Personally I don't mind who makes the first step...I simply want the schism ended!
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Ditto.

[Desert Walker]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Apr 5 2006, 09:46 AM']You mean like Blessed Pius IX or Paul VI?  They both served in hostile enviorments and look at what they accomplished....

Papal Infallibility (defined through Vatican Council I) and Humanae Vitae, respectively.

I don't worry about political constraint....the Pope is bigger than any one government.
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I'm talking about the Curia. What about the power to depose or remove persons from positions of certain authority? What about the power to establish detailed, SPECIFIC universal norms of seminarian formation and education so that an end can come to the reign of the subjective infallibility of all Christians?

I just spent the last two years of my life learning how to reject my Catholic faith without feeling guilty! And I was in the Redemptorist formation program!

That's the kind of thing the pope has the authority to end! And he isn't! Why the heck not?!

[nowak.chris]

[quote name='Peccator' date='Apr 5 2006, 11:47 AM']Personally I don't mind who makes the first step...I simply want the schism ended!
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I agree, with the qualification that Rome, if indeed it is Rome who acts first, is not admiting grave error in teaching. Same with the E.Orthodox schism.

chris

[Cam42]

[quote name='Desert Walker' date='Apr 5 2006, 12:37 PM']I'm talking about the Curia.  What about the power to depose or remove persons from positions of certain authority?  What about the power to establish detailed, SPECIFIC universal norms of seminarian formation and education so that an end can come to the reign of the subjective  infallibility of all Christians?

I just spent the last two years of my life learning how to reject my Catholic faith without feeling guilty!  And I was in the Redemptorist formation program!

That's the kind of thing the pope has the authority to end!  And he isn't!  Why the heck not?!
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He has the right to do what he wishes.....

How do you know that he is not? He has only been Pope a year.....

[Era Might]

Desert,

Fear not. The Holy Father isn't worried about what anyone thinks. He will stand up for what is right. Nothing is constraining him. From his book "Salt of the Earth":

[quote]It is true that the Church may never simply align itself with the "Zeitgeist". The Church must address the vices and perils of the time; she must appeal to the consciences of the powerful and of the intellectuals, not to mention of those who want to live narrow-minded, comfortable lives while ignoring the needs of the time, and so forth. As a bishop I felt obliged to face this task. Moreover, the deficits were too obvious: exhaustion of the faith, decline in vocations, lowering of moral standards even among men of the Church, an increasing tendency towards violence, and much else. [b]The words of the Bible and of the Church Fathers rang in my ears, those sharp condemnations of shepherds who are like mute dogs; in order to avoid conflicts, they let the poison spread. Peace is not the first civic duty, and a bishop whose only concern is not to have any problems and to gloss over as many conflicts as possible is an image I find repulsive[/b].[/quote]

As for why he hasn't done this or that, he is only one man. He has to rely a lot on his fellow Bishops to do their job. They have been given a diocese for a reason.

Edited April 5, 2006 by Era Might

[Ora et Labora]

ya, era might is right. the bishops have a pretty big job.

[Desert Walker]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Apr 5 2006, 10:45 AM']He has the right to do what he wishes.....

How do you know that he is not?  He has only been Pope a year.....
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I know that he has not because churchmen like my parish priest think that events like the annual Eucharistic Congress in my diocese is a right-wing nut house event, detrimental to world peace and social justice, and that devotion to the Divine Mercy must remain private or "ecumenism" will be disrupted. So we're not allowed to conduct a public, week-long devotional activity to Divine Mercy in MY OWN PARISH!!! I thought we were supposed to be Roman Catholic!

Maybe the pope WILL do something definitive at some point in the future, Cam, but while he's waiting around, people like me are on the verge of losing their faith. Never in my life did I think I would seriously consider not going to Mass, not going to confession, not praying. Never in my life have I felt like everything is so utterly pointless I should give up completely.

"Keep the faith!" you might say. My answer? "Keep WHAT faith?" I can't remember what the truth is anymore...

The quote from "Salt of the Earth" is encouraging, though.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Desert Walker' date='Apr 5 2006, 01:08 PM']I know that he has not because churchmen like my parish priest think that events like the annual Eucharistic Congress in my diocese is a right-wing nut house event, detrimental to world peace and social justice, and that devotion to the Divine Mercy must remain private or "ecumenism" will be disrupted.  So we're not allowed to conduct a public, week-long devotional activity to Divine Mercy in MY OWN PARISH!!!  I thought we were supposed to be Roman Catholic!

Maybe the pope WILL do something definitive at some point in the future, Cam, but while he's waiting around, people like me are on the verge of losing their faith.  Never in my life did I think I would seriously consider not going to Mass, not going to confession, not praying.  Never in my life have I felt like everything is so utterly pointless I should give up completely.

"Keep the faith!"  you might say.  My answer?  "Keep WHAT faith?"  I can't remember what the truth is anymore...

The quote from "Salt of the Earth" is encouraging, though.
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How many parishes are there in the world again? It would seem that it would be more up to the Ordinary to take care of what is going on....how about aiming that pent up anger at him and not the Pope.

Paruse the Code of Canon Law, Sacrosanctum Concilium, and Redemptoris Sacramentum......it explains the role of the Ordinary in the life of his See.

[dspen2005]

why should it be the vatican... what 1st step has sspx taken?? NONE!! IMHO

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Desert Walker' date='Apr 5 2006, 12:08 PM']Maybe the pope WILL do something definitive at some point in the future, Cam, but while he's waiting around, people like me are on the verge of losing their faith.  Never in my life did I think I would seriously consider not going to Mass, not going to confession, not praying.  Never in my life have I felt like everything is so utterly pointless I should give up completely.

"Keep the faith!"  you might say.  My answer?  "Keep WHAT faith?"  I can't remember what the truth is anymore...[right][snapback]936620[/snapback][/right]
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I will pray for you. I can definately understand your situation. I too have felt this way.

[Ora et Labora]

well...what a cheerful site. lol j/k i will pray for both of you. but i really dont think your looking past y'alls nose...rome is still orthodox. the people dont define our faith.

[Guest JeffCR07]

One point that I think has been passed over is this:

Rome [i]should[/i] take the first step - not because Holy Mother Church is wrong and the SSPX is right, but rather, the Church should take the first step [i]because she is the Church[/i]. She is the mystical body of Christ, who went to dine with tax collectors. She is the truest icon of Christ, who washed the feet of the Apostles. She is the bride of Christ, who, on our behalf spoke unto the Father, saying, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do."

[ironman]

I hope the SSPX come back to Rome......it would be such a boost for the Church..........I think it'll happen in about 5 years......

[Desert Walker]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='Apr 5 2006, 02:17 PM']I will pray for you. I can definately understand your situation. I too have felt this way.
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Thank you.

[Desert Walker]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Apr 5 2006, 02:48 PM']well...what a cheerful site. lol j/k i will pray for both of you. but i really dont think your looking past y'alls nose...rome is still orthodox. the people dont define our faith.
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The ideal is that Rome defines our faith. The practice is that anyone defines any faith. It's what Ratzinger once called the "tyranny of relativism." It feels like a dictatorship of personal opinion.

[Desert Walker]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Apr 5 2006, 06:42 PM']One point that I think has been passed over is this:

Rome [i]should[/i] take the first step - not because Holy Mother Church is wrong and the SSPX is right, but rather, the Church should take the first step [i]because she is the Church[/i]. She is the mystical body of Christ, who went to dine with tax collectors. She is the truest icon of Christ, who washed the feet of the Apostles. She is the bride of Christ, who, on our behalf spoke unto the Father, saying, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do."
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Your point has SQUASHED all the others! :

[Desert Walker]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Apr 5 2006, 11:20 AM']How many parishes are there in the world again?  It would seem that it would be more up to the Ordinary to take care of what is going on....how about aiming that pent up anger at him and not the Pope.

Paruse the Code of Canon Law, Sacrosanctum Concilium, and Redemptoris Sacramentum......it explains the role of the Ordinary in the life of his See.
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My local ordinary is extremely interested in a politically surgical removal of heterodoxy in our diocese. It will take him years. Anything I write will be gladly considered and then filed away in the garbage bin. I would have my ordinary act to upset the calm waters of religious indifference YESTERDAY, but the chosen pace is that of a turtle.

[Socrates]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Apr 5 2006, 06:42 PM']One point that I think has been passed over is this:

Rome [i]should[/i] take the first step - not because Holy Mother Church is wrong and the SSPX is right, but rather, the Church should take the first step [i]because she is the Church[/i]. She is the mystical body of Christ, who went to dine with tax collectors. She is the truest icon of Christ, who washed the feet of the Apostles. She is the bride of Christ, who, on our behalf spoke unto the Father, saying, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do."
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Rome has already taken the first step in trying to get the SSPX to reconcile with Rome. It's Fellay and co. that are stubbornly refusinf to reconcile - they only want to reconcile if Rome gives in to all [i]their[/i] demands. They've got things back-asswards.