Pope doesn't believe in Medjugorje...

[Dave]

Regarding the good that has come out of Medjugorje, you could say that about all false apparitions (just as you could say that about the true ones). I mean, God always -- ALWAYS -- brings good out of bad. Even so, just because people have experienced cures or conversions doesn't automatically mean an apparition is true. Satan, in his quest to win the war (which, of course, we all know won't happen), knows as well as the rest of do that sometimes, in order to win the war, you have to lose a few battles. So if in order to have more people estranged from God, a few people end up closer to Him, then that's perfectly ok with Satan.

[Tink]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Apr 15 2006, 11:17 AM']I can make a video of me rolling around on the ground, making artificial animal noises and forcing myself to laugh and cry all under the inspiration of the "spirit" like the charismatics do at Steubenville; then play pin the tail on cardinal mahoney- i mean donkey-  with a seemingly-opaque blindfold but does that make those experiences authentic? I could fake the Medugorje "apparitions" too- just give me 20+ years. 

Bayside had "miraculous" photos and videos too, that have turned out to be doctored/created/fakes.

It's also great to know that supposedly-orthodox Catholics, disregard what the pope has said- something he knows to be correct, due to his years of theological study and work...

I mean it's not like he knows better than a lay person or "visionaries" who've believe/purportedly have seen/are seeing in this woman, supposedly Our Lady, hundreds of  thousands of times or anything...
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[color=purple]I think that response is extremely uncharitable and frankly repulsive. I think you should read St. Louis de Montfort's book True Devotion To Mary, or read it again if you have done so already. So many people are so quick to deny the apparitions based on skepticism or mere opinions. Neutral doctors did scientific studies on the visionaries and while most people use around 15% of their brain for typical tasks, the visionaries were using 100% of their brain capacity beginning when the apparition allegedly began and ending after Mary had allegedly disappeared. 'We walk by faith, and not by sight,' remember? I think you should try to take a bit more of a Christlike approach to all of this, rather than attacking it and those who believe in it.
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[homeschoolmom]

Hmmmm... should I move this now or wait a bit...?

[goldbug16]

I agree.

[Tink]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Apr 15 2006, 02:37 PM'] Hmmmm... should I move this now or wait a bit...?
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[color=purple]Haha sorry, I didn't mean for this to be a debate. I just had to say something.[/color]

[jiyoung]

Why not just let the matter rest until the Church has her say? I doubt we'd be able to do the kind of extensive research that they could. But Medjugorje has brought about a lot of conversions and reignited the faith for a lot of people. It could be a "miracle" or God bringing good out of bad, but I don't think it's that big of a deal.

[Tink]

[color=purple]I agree. However, I therefore know that people who are supposedly seeking Christ as Catholics should not be verbally attacking Medjugorje and those who believe it to be true.[/color]

[Tink]

[color=purple]I love your avatar, by the way![/color]

[goldbug16]

Yeah it is really pretty. Yours is pretty too Tink.

[brendan1104]

If everybody will remember correctly the local ordinary in medjugorje has not approved it... rather he is against these fake apparitions and discourages so much false devotion. Many people are not obedient to his directives.... the Church has spoken, in this case the local church.

debate table please.

Edited April 15, 2006 by brendan1104

[Tink]

[color=purple]I also notice that you don't 'rep the Church.' I wonder why.........[/color]

[brendan1104]

[quote name='Tink' date='Apr 15 2006, 06:43 PM'][color=purple]I also notice that you don't 'rep the Church.' I wonder why.........[/color]
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because I used to hold SSPX positions...

[Tink]

[color=purple]Interesting. Well, regardless, you are claiming conclusions that are completely false.[/color]

[brendan1104]

Unlike you I can quote magisterial teaching figures and back my sources up in writing.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='brendan1104' date='Apr 15 2006, 06:55 PM']Unlike you I can quote magisterial teaching figures and back my sources up in writing. 
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don't be so confrontationalSTOPIt's Easter, you knowSTOP
Regards,
toledo_jesus

[jiyoung]

I got my avatar from the OC Norbertine abbey's website photo gallery.

I would say that until the Church, aka Rome, declares it, it's not final. And, like they said, until the apparitions stop, they can't declare it valid or otherwise. So, let's wait until then

Tink, your avatar is a Medjugorje image, right?

[Tink]

[color=purple]I KNEW the image looked familiar.... Yes, it is a Medjurogje image. I didn't even realize it![/color]

[GuyWithAFoil]

Who am I to say wether or not Medjugorje is real, or anyone here!

If it is real, great! its simply another amazing act of our Lord and His Mother, bringing His children closer to Him.
If it is not real, so what? obviously many people have gotten something spiritually helpful from an experience with Medjugorje, and that is a good thing.
also, if it is not real, the church is not exacly lacking for amazing things, miricals, to inspire us.

my two cents

[Proud2BCatholic139]

Can we please close the thread?

[Slave_of_the_Trinity]

I have been to Medjugorje three times and I have been at a private apparition with one of the visionaries as well. When your inside of the Church of St. James you can feel the presence of Christ, but then again, that's just a sign that there is a Tabernacle with Our Lord's Precious Body in it. When you walk out of the Church and into the streets, there you feel something completely different. There are stores EVERYWHERE like Medjugorje was a place of profit. They have made it into a "den of thieves!" Not only that, but when I was there in August a couple of years ago when the Pope was in Dubrovnik (an hour and a half a way from Medjugorje) there were banners of the Pope's sheild everywhere!!! They made an announcement over the loud speakers saying that His Holiness was going to come to Medjugorje, but he wasn't feeling to good!!! A LIE! He never approved of it. I was there on August 5. In Medjugorje, this is our Lady's Birthday. Doesn't the CHURCH say that it is on September 8th? Here's a link > [url="http://www.medjugorje-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=573&sid=1b81e826a65e36d59f0907e4bb693272"]http://www.medjugorje-online.com/forum/vie...f0907e4bb693272[/url]

Im not here to cause any trouble, but I was there and I know first hand because I ve been there. If you are looking for your Mother, dont run off to some unapproved apparition when you have Fatima where Our Lady came to us as a Catecist by introducing us to the Trinity. Or Lourders where she introduced Herself as the Immaculate Conception.

About the good fruit coming from Medjugorje.... when you are seeking the Physician of Souls, no matter where you are, you will recieve mercy and be healed. People are changing not because of Medjugorje but because the are seeking God. They are going to confession, recieving the Most Holy Eucharist, and finally opening up thier souls to Our Lord.