dUSt Posted December 24, 2003 Posted December 24, 2003 May the peace of Christ be with us Circle_Master. Thank you for your answer, and I will read the FF Bruce book if I can find it somewhere cheaper than $20 (unless, of course, you wanna buy it for me? haha). Now. Are you part of a denomination? It'll help me understand where you're coming from (even though I realize that most Protestants aren't bound to a set of specific beliefs, but rather, a "personal" interpretation of those beliefs). Also. I don't think you satisfied the queston of why you believe the Bible is inspired. God bless.
hyperdulia again Posted December 24, 2003 Posted December 24, 2003 I don't have to struggle, Holy Church has by putting these veres into Her Bible said that they are the Word of God, and as such worthy of my belief. I don't think verses missing from the oldest manuscripts need trouble the Catholic conscience nearly as much as the Protestant one.
dUSt Posted December 24, 2003 Posted December 24, 2003 Yes, that would be John 7:53 through 8:11. This would be the effort of textual critism to piece together the correct original texts. I believe only the autographs are inspired and perfect, not our human copies. You have to struggle through this same issue as well, this isn't just a protestant thing. But I also see a big difference in that a Catholic struggles with this issue with the Church, as opposed to a Protestant struggling with this issue all by themselves.
Circle_Master Posted December 24, 2003 Posted December 24, 2003 I fail to see a difference ultimately. Do you not have scholars which struggle through it as protestants?
dUSt Posted December 24, 2003 Posted December 24, 2003 I fail to see a difference ultimately. Do you not have scholars which struggle through it as protestants? I think the difference is that: it is part of a Catholic's faith to rely on the scholars in the Church. As Catholics, we admit to leaning on the Church for guidance and help with interpreting the Holy Bible. On the other hand, most Protestants I meet say that all they need is the Bible, so it would seem to me that if a Protestant has to rely on Protestant scholars to help them with interpretation, it causes quite the dilemna with what they claim to believe. Am I wrong or have I distorted something here?
Circle_Master Posted December 24, 2003 Posted December 24, 2003 I believe we made a connection here. Both of us rely on our better scholars. Fortunately for me, I can judge and evaluate my scholars based on their Godliness, and writings and go through Scripture and see if it speaks as they wrote. You on the other hand are stuck with whatever is written. It is not even a guarantee that your author is saved. It's been said even of Pope's in the past that they weren't saved (by Catholics *cough*). That is a heavy dilemma.
hyperdulia again Posted December 24, 2003 Posted December 24, 2003 (edited) Here's the beauty of Catholicism, not all of our Popes have been good, and quite possibly when we get to Heaven we're going to discover that quite a few of them ain't (I'm from Bama) there, but such is the protection that the Holy Spirit gives Christ's Bride, that the Head of the Church whhether or not he is in a State of Sanctifying (saving) Grace, cannot lead God's little ones into error. Edited December 24, 2003 by hyperdulia again
dUSt Posted December 24, 2003 Posted December 24, 2003 I believe we made a connection here. Both of us rely on our better scholars. Fortunately for me, I can judge and evaluate my scholars based on their Godliness, and writings and go through Scripture and see if it speaks as they wrote. This is probably why I'm not Protestant. I see Sola Scriptura and "relying on Scholars" as incompatible. But it really all falls back on how you personally interpret scripture. If you have to decide which of your scholars are compatible with scripture, and which are not, then in my mind, it defeats the purpose. Whereas, with the Church, it is looked at as a whole. You on the other hand are stuck with whatever is written. It is not even a guarantee that your author is saved. It's been said even of Pope's in the past that they weren't saved (by Catholics *cough*). That is a heavy dilemma. There might have been popes who didn't make it to heaven. Who knows? This still doesn't negate the fact that the Church is a whole. It would be unfair of me to point out to you bad people who share the same beliefs as you. One rotten egg doesn't ruin the whole dozen (is that a saying?). God bless.
Circle_Master Posted December 24, 2003 Posted December 24, 2003 I'll touch up on other stuff later. It's Christmas time, but I will let you know what I am denominational-wise and whatnot I'm a.... evangelical dispensational premillenial pretribulational and possibly reformed in my soteriology christian hedonist protestant Christian which belongs to no denomination. I might be a little more epangelical than dispensational as well. I have more research to do in that area however.
dUSt Posted December 24, 2003 Posted December 24, 2003 I'll touch up on other stuff later. It's Christmas time, but I will let you know what I am denominational-wise and whatnot I'm a.... evangelical dispensational premillenial pretribulational and possibly reformed in my soteriology christian hedonist protestant Christian which belongs to no denomination. I might be a little more epangelical than dispensational as well. I have more research to do in that area however. I wish you luck with all that. lol I'm Catholic. God bless. Merry Christmas.
PedroX Posted December 25, 2003 Posted December 25, 2003 How can you be dispensationalist and reformed? John Calvin and Zwingli are turning in their graves, and good Presbyterians everywhere are having nightmares tonight over that statement. You accuse Catholics of following man made traditions, but you are premill, pretrib, dispensationalist and a "Christian Hedonist" (John Piper, right?) A little consistency might be nice. peace...
foundsheep Posted December 25, 2003 Posted December 25, 2003 What dUSt said; and do you realize that many of the old manuscripts are missing verses that you and I hold to be inspired? example: I don't know the book, chapter, and verse and am too ill to go and find it, but did you know the passages in one of the Gospels about the woman caught in adultury, the "go and sin no more", "cast the first stone" verses are missing from the oldest surviving manuscripts. Hyper i hope you feel better and Im praying you get well. Merry Christ-mass and much love. Peace be wit ya! Foundsheep
Circle_Master Posted December 25, 2003 Posted December 25, 2003 How can you be dispensationalist and reformed? John Calvin and Zwingli are turning in their graves, and good Presbyterians everywhere are having nightmares tonight over that statement. You accuse Catholics of following man made traditions, but you are premill, pretrib, dispensationalist and a "Christian Hedonist" (John Piper, right?) A little consistency might be nice. peace... Someone asked that I let you know what I believe... and I let you know. And no, none of them contradict each other. They all actually compliment each other very well. I said reformed in my SOTERIOLOGY. That is dealing with the Spirit, not eschatology which dispensationalism deals more with. By mocking me like that you just show your ignorance of the areas and the need for real education and not constant propaganda. Ugh I have stuff to do, but I hope you have a Merry Christmas anyway..
hyperdulia again Posted December 25, 2003 Posted December 25, 2003 Alright Pedro and Circle play nice. Don' wanna send this to the Back Alley, there's actually a good convo going on.
Circle_Master Posted December 25, 2003 Posted December 25, 2003 (edited) is there anyway to block someone? I'm a bit offended at the bluntness and complete incorrectness of Pedro's statement. If you want to blast someone as wrong, at least know something of what you are talking about for starters. And then second, make sure what you are responding to is what they wrote, and then third, read the thread to see why it was posted. Not just jumping in and insulting. Edited December 25, 2003 by Circle_Master
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted December 25, 2003 Posted December 25, 2003 No need, he'll play nice. God bless you Circle and everyone else, and Merry Christmas. This topic is right up my alley, we can continue later.
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