I attempted suicide

[Donna]

Cathurian,

I agree with you: it is impossible to let God take care of letting Him love us when we have panic attacks and break out in hives/sweats and are forced to flee Mass. Or at least it seems that way. Because something's wrong physically, with the brain and/or body - panic attacks aren't normal.

It will take time, I think, to recover from your illness. Grace is built upon nature, and when nature (the physical/mental) is going through a hurricane, then nature is the first thing to be dealt with. That's God taking care of you....trying to find the right meds and all that to help you recover from anxiety. As you recover from this, grace will have "more" to attach itself to, or you'll be more "aware" of grace.

I strongly suspect also that the terror of God/sinning is an actual spiritual malady called *scruples*. This comes from the Latin word "pebble" and it is a soul's INABILITY to RIGHTLY JUDGE themselves - specifically, the soul takes a "pebble" of a sin and makes it into a mountain. It can be relentless and totally debilitating. The temptations can be so violent so as to render the soul convinced it is totally depraved.

Many saints were afflicted with this - St. Alphonsus Ligouri, while having the gift of healing miracles, who was head of the Redemptorist Order and director of many souls', couldn't do ONE THING for himself.

If you are judged as scrupulous by a knowledgable confessor, the main remedy is obedience to that director. Souls have been instructed to go to Communion by confessors...because they'd convince themselves they were sinning mortally left and right the second they left the confessional. For the scrupulous soul the examination of conscience is poison.

I will invoke St. Alphonsus about all of this.

Your best course of action is to COMMUNICATE with your parents, psychiatrist and spiritual director about what is happening. As a mother, please believe me that doing this honors God (and your parents) very much. Yes, telling them of the attempt and all the awful things, YES, this is honoring your God, because it will help you keep getting help to recover.

[salveregina]

[quote name='Cathurian' post='957320' date='Apr 22 2006, 06:23 PM']
But it's IMPOSSIBLE to let Him take care of that!

Isn't it just such a terrible thought to think that we'll be offending Him constantly until death? I would rather just not exist. I can't bear the thought of it. I know He disagrees and wants me to exist, which means I'm STILL offending Him right now, and not assenting my will to His.

The thought of going through the rest of my life in a horrible state of falling again and again makes me just want to die; it's such a horrible thought I want to worship satan out of spite, because God makes NO SENSE and at the very least I know how to be a slave. I can do that. That's straightforward.
[/quote]


Okay, as someone who has plenty of experience with this type of thing (in many arenas), I understand what you're feeling and know it's terribly painful. However, think once on this: your say something about how offending God until death is unbearable...well, if God made you, and God loves you, and He wants you to be happy, and He sent His son for you, to redeem you so you can be with Him forever etc. (you know all of this), then why would it be a good idea to relieve yourself from the pain you're causing God by killing the beautiful creation that He made with His hands to know, love and serve Him? Why would that make God happier than the even the smallest of sins a just man might commit daily? God wants you here until He calls you home. He has something in store for you, specifically, that no one else can do. There are hearts for you to touch, people for you to love, and a God who made you to enjoy the life you've been given. Despair in the face of scrupulosity does not go hand in hand with the ultimate outpouring of love that Christ showed us on the cross. If we believe in a God that would undergo pain, hatred, mockery and death, and then rise, as He had promised...we can be assured of His mercy and love!
This might be difficult to grasp in the midst of such anxiety and pain, but chew on it as best you can. Take it little by little. And remember a quote by Mother Teresa: "We are called upon not to be successful but to be faithful." It's not about being perfect in everything we try to do. It's trying, falling, admitting failure, and getting back up to try again. That's faithfulness. And that's what we're called to.

And yes, get yourself a spiritual director, too. Psychiatry is peachy and all, but science can only do so much. We are body AND soul. Help that soul out, too, okay?

[luciana]

[quote] will invoke St. Alphonsus about all of this.

Your best course of action is to COMMUNICATE with your parents, psychiatrist and spiritual director about what is happening. As a mother, please believe me that doing this honors God (and your parents) very much. Yes, telling them of the attempt and all the awful things, YES, this is honoring your God, because it will help you keep getting help to recover.[/quote]

Prayers for you tonight and as long as necessary

I know how you feel in part. Panic attacks are hard to deal with, and it'll take time. I didn't need medicine but I know someone who did, and you got to check out about any side effects.

Yes, definitely talk to your parents again, maybe you need help w/ your medicine, and/or to see a good priest or spiritual director, counselor

In the meantime, pray. Pray the rosary, it can be very calming. Pray and know that your pham is praying for you and care for you.
Know that God loves you more than you can imagine. It's true we're not worth of His love. His love is like a parent's for their child, but much deeper. Our human love is only a small reflection of that.

Don't be afraid!!!
"Cast all your anxieties on Him, for He cares about you." 1 Peter 5:7
See yourself laying on Jesus' breast, him holding you and you telling Him all your probs. and fears.
Go to Mary our heavenly Mother and ask for help like your earthly mother's.

[Mary-Kathryn]

[quote name='Raphael' post='957710' date='Apr 23 2006, 12:51 AM']
A psychiatrist will probably not help with that particular problem.

What you need is a good spiritual director.
Amen! Thank you, Father. Words for the ears of every heart.
[/quote]

May I respectfully disagree? When someone is truly depressed...professionals and family is key to healing. Cath is a [b] whole [/b] person. The physical, emotional, mental and spiritual cannot be placed in tidy seperate boxes. Cath's suffering affects everything in his/her life at the moment.

[b][note here: there is no disrespect meant in talking about Cathurian's struggles. I know that Cathurian is a person...not an inanimate object to be bounced around in conversation. I do care Cathurian!][/b]

I often talk about it this way...if someone had high blood presure would anyone tell them to toss their medication and just pray? If someone has diabetes would one tell them to stop the injections and find a good spiritual director? Just as we recognize that these are real conditions that require treatment, so must we recognize that mental conditions [those chemical imbalances of the brain] also need treatment.

It is not about choosing between God or the treatment. When one who suffers from mental conditions receives treatment, he has LIFE. A life lived, is a life for God. As I tell people: I keep a prayer in my heart and my medication in my hand. I have both...together.

I hope your day is a good and joyful one
Mary-Kathryn

[phuzzy]

[quote name='Raphael' post='957316' date='Apr 22 2006, 05:18 PM']
Jennie and I are deeply in love[/quote]

Oh, good work my boy. Heed my advice and you do well.

[Peccator]

My friend, know that God is greater than human logic. An eternity would still be too little time to understand Him in his fullness, so make it easy on yourself and know He loves you.

I'll keep you in my prayers...do not give up, because He hasn't on you

[sidemunch88]

[quote name='Cathurian' post='957362' date='Apr 22 2006, 06:55 PM']
I'm actually on medication for anxiety right now. 100 mg of Zoloft. I'm still depressed and anxious and scared of God.

I hate myself.
[/quote]
I just want to give you a hug

i had to help my brother with this also

[Lounge Daddy]

yes yes - hugs for you... and prayers
ok?

just make sure YOU pray, at least one Hail Mary every day

God bless you
and don't be terrified of God
we all mess up, and He knows that --- I'm a HUGE screw up ...He goes after His lost sheep --- even you and I

He wants to carry you on His shoulders ... if you let Him

[zwergel88]

Hey Cathurian, I know how you feel, I have struggled with anxiety myself. Sometimes it helps just to know your not the only one, if you ever want to talk or something you can pm me and my aol name is zwergel88.

I agree with the others here. Spiritual direction can certainly be helpful, but in situations like these, it is good to trust the professionals who are trained to consel people with anxiety.

Good Luck,

Anna

[Domine ut Videam]

Cathurian,

I struggled with very much the same questions that you are.

The only thing i can say is pray Psalm 103. Pray it every morning, every evening. Memorize it as soon as you can. Live it, pray it, think it. I wish there was more i could do, or say; but there isn't. Just know know that in this time when all seems to be darkness. It is in this time that God is closest. He is right beside you.
"The darkest time comes right before the dawn."

[u]Psalm 103[/u]

Bless the LORD, my soul; all my being, bless his holy name!

Bless the LORD, my soul; do not forget all the gifts of God,

Who pardons all your sins, heals all your ills,

Delivers your life from the pit, surrounds you with love and compassion,

Fills your days with good things; your youth is renewed like the eagle's.

The LORD does righteous deeds, brings justice to all the oppressed.

His ways were revealed to Moses, mighty deeds to the people of Israel.

Merciful and gracious is the LORD, slow to anger, abounding in kindness.

God does not always rebuke, nurses no lasting anger,

Has not dealt with us as our sins merit, nor requited us as our deeds deserve.

As the heavens tower over the earth, so God's love towers over the faithful.

As far as the east is from the west, so far have our sins been removed from us.

As a father has compassion on his children, so the LORD has compassion on the faithful.

For he knows how we are formed, remembers that we are dust.

Our days are like the grass; like flowers of the field we blossom.

The wind sweeps over us and we are gone; our place knows us no more.

But the LORD'S kindness is forever, toward the faithful from age to age. He favors the children's children

of those who keep his covenant, who take care to fulfill its precepts.

The LORD'S throne is established in heaven; God's royal power rules over all.

Bless the LORD, all you angels, mighty in strength and attentive, obedient to every command.

Bless the LORD, all you hosts, ministers who do God's will.

Bless the LORD, all creatures, everywhere in God's domain. Bless the LORD, my soul!


-Yours in Christ
Lauren

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

Cathurian, there is nothing which I can say or do that can make you feel better, but please accept this sign of God's love for you.



((((((((((((((((((((Cathurian)))))))))))))))))))))

[let_go_let_God]

Cath,

I have been in the same situation. Suicide is NEVER the answer. Fear in the Lord is natural. God is all powerful and all knowing. Trust me I find myself scared of Him as well. However he knows every part of you and wants what is best for your happiness peace and joy. God's love is everywhere and He doesn't want you or anyone to go to Hell. That's why He sent us His son. I strongly encourage you to pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet and to also pray for help from your Guardian Angel. I have been through this before, and I hope that you can over come your anxiety. If you would like to talk in private, please PM me. I am more than willing to talk to you.

God bless-
LGLG

[avemaria40]

Hey, I'm praying for you. Please get help and know that, yes we are broken and fallen, but that's why Christ came down to save us. Don't worry about feeling good enough for him, just recognize that He loves you infinitely more than any of us will ever know. Accept and embrace his love and know that you are good and beautiful because God made you. When He created mankind, He saw it as "very good". That includes you. If He didn't still think that, He wouldn't have given us His Son to save us. Stay strong and hold firm in your faith. Many saints have been tested in this way, but God is always faithful to His promises. Remember that.

[Paladin D]

Everyone has given better advice than I could give, so all I can say is...

GOD LOVES YOU, and so do I! :

[goldbug16]

I will be praying for you. God Loves you!!! Remember that always!

[jezic]

[quote name='Mary-Kathryn' post='957795' date='Apr 23 2006, 06:57 AM']
May I respectfully disagree? When someone is truly depressed...professionals and family is key to healing. Cath is a [b] whole [/b] person. The physical, emotional, mental and spiritual cannot be placed in tidy seperate boxes. Cath's suffering affects everything in his/her life at the moment.

[b][note here: there is no disrespect meant in talking about Cathurian's struggles. I know that Cathurian is a person...not an inanimate object to be bounced around in conversation. I do care Cathurian!][/b]

I often talk about it this way...if someone had high blood presure would anyone tell them to toss their medication and just pray? If someone has diabetes would one tell them to stop the injections and find a good spiritual director? Just as we recognize that these are real conditions that require treatment, so must we recognize that mental conditions [those chemical imbalances of the brain] also need treatment.

It is not about choosing between God or the treatment. When one who suffers from mental conditions receives treatment, he has LIFE. A life lived, is a life for God. As I tell people: I keep a prayer in my heart and my medication in my hand. I have both...together.

I hope your day is a good and joyful one
Mary-Kathryn
[/quote]

psychiatrists are not trained to deal with spiritual matters. In this case treating the whole person would recommend not seeing only a psychologist.

[Donna]

True, Jezic. But the point Mary Kathryn was making is that no one would try to talk someone out of having a broken arm/diabetes, etc; Too often biological brain disorders and esp. chemical dependency are not seen as physical conditions requiring physical treatment.

I hope Cathurian, that you've had a thorough physical with blood sugar and thyroid tested for sure. There may be something else identifiable contributing to your anxiety. I know of what I speak, having dealt with Graves' Disease. Esp. prior to diagnosis and treatment, the emotional/physical symptoms mimiced mania. Getting the thyroid hormone levels in line and becoming stable in that way has done a lot.
Nevertheless, I have been diagnosed also as anxiety due to a medical condition. There are hundreds of medical conditions of which anxiety is part and parcel.

Recovery from Graves and anxiety has coincided with becoming re-centered as regards God and the Faith - the way it used to be before illness came.

The spiritual direction is very important and any good spiritual director would make physical diagnosis/recovery top priority in Cathurian's situation. Likewise, a good MD and/or psychiatrist would encourage Cathurian to pray, to have a sound spiritual director.

It's possible to get all one's needs met and all "providers" at least recognize the wealth of the others, or not interfere w/ the others. For the psychiatrist to recognize the priest, and the priest to recognize the chiropractor! I have seen God's hand most equisitely at work in what's become a team of providers for me; medical, counseling, holistic, priestly. I can lean most on whoever I need most at whatever particular time. This came of its own accord, over time and in a natural way. The best part is not needing the first 3 nearly so much as when illness was in the crisis stage.

The PM Pham has virtually prayed me into remission - so there's a lot going for ya Cathurian, right there!

Edited April 24, 2006 by Donna

[Tink]

[color="#ff0066"]I can relate to your general situation, and you definitely have my prayers.[/color]

[ironmonk]

Read them all...

[url="http://www.escrivaworks.org/book/the_way/contents"]http://www.escrivaworks.org/book/the_way/contents[/url]

and...

[url="http://www.escrivaworks.org/book/the_forge/contents"]http://www.escrivaworks.org/book/the_forge/contents[/url]



You will change alot in the next few years... know that all the pain will pass.

Know that you are on medication that will effect your moods.

Know that everything is possible. It takes time and hard work. It takes years. Our current society programs us wrong... from TV to the very wretched system call public schools.

Think and know that you can change.

Talk to priests more than your psychiatrist... unless your psychiatrist is a devout and knowledgable Catholic and applies the faith to his words, take his advice only after consulting a priest or with a big grain of salt. If what he says goes against Church teaching, then find another psychiatrist. Modern day psychiatry fails in many ways.

Read, read, and read... Buy Imitation of Christ by Thomas Kempis... great book. Read the New Testament daily... at least one chapter and meditate on it.

I understand what you are going through... I've been there a few times myself... but know that no matter how bad you feel, it will pass. You will change a lot between now and 25. You will grow in wisdom if you apply yourself. You can do anything you set your mind to... but you have to try... when you fall, you must get back up and try again... then you will do.

Nothing is impossible... nothing.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Birgitta Noel]

Hey, how are you doing? Please let us know if there's anything we can do

You remain in my prayers.