Vatican 'may relax condom rules'

[SeekingHisPlan]

[quote name='jasJis' post='959256' date='Apr 24 2006, 03:32 PM']
dUSt,
I believe you are sorely mistaken. What current teaching allows "certain types of birth control for mecical reasons."
[/quote]


Perhaps dUst was referring to the fact that the hormones found in the BCP can be used to treat other health problems in women who are not sexually active. Therefore, a non sexually-active woman can licitly take the pill to treat a medical problem. As far as I know, there is no moral dilema here. Correct me if I am mistaken. (I'd argue that it does present a possible medical dilema, since the BCP is often offered as a "quick fix" for women experiencing hormone-related health problems.)

[Birgitta Noel]

[quote name='SeekingHisPlan' post='959465' date='Apr 24 2006, 06:46 PM']
Perhaps dUst was referring to the fact that the hormones found in the BCP can be used to treat other health problems in women who are not sexually active. Therefore, a non sexually-active woman can licitly take the pill to treat a medical problem. As far as I know, there is no moral dilema here. Correct me if I am mistaken. (I'd argue that it does present a possible medical dilema, since the BCP is often offered as a "quick fix" for women experiencing hormone-related health problems.)
[/quote]

This is correct

[Maria]

My grandmother took the pill for a while for medical reasons. My grandparents abstained during that time.

[Old_Joe]

I thought that condoms did little or nothing to prevent the transmission of HIV.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Old_Joe' post='959537' date='Apr 24 2006, 08:34 PM']
I thought that condoms did little or nothing to prevent the transmission of HIV.
[/quote]


you thought wrong.

[toledo_jesus]

If we do see a statement allowing Condom use, expect a whole lot of apostasy. This would confuse people beyond their current state, and it certainly isn't even clearly moral.

Yay for hypersexualized culture! Surely a man and woman cannot be denied sex, even if one of them suffers from an incurable plague that is spread through fluid transfers! Surely!

ah, despair.

[Maria]

They have the potential to prevent aids. It's other stds that are too small that they can't stop. If there are leaks, though, it doesn't do even that good.

[Old_Joe]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='959539' date='Apr 24 2006, 07:35 PM']
you thought wrong.
[/quote]
So condoms actually physically prevent the transmission of AIDS?

[kamiller42]

Since a paper is due by the Vatican soon, let's hit rewind and review what has been said before by a very wise cardinal, Alfonso Cardinal López Trujillo.

[quote]The Catholic Bishops of South Africa, Botswana and Swaziland categorically “regard the widespread and indiscriminate promotion of condoms as an immoral and misguided weapon in our battle against HIV/AIDS for the following reasons. * The use of condoms goes against human dignity. * Condoms change the beautiful act of love into a selfish search for pleasure – while rejecting responsibility. * Condoms do not guarantee protection against HIV/AIDS. * Condoms may even be one of the main reasons for the spread of HIV/AIDS. Apart from the possibility of condoms being faulty or wrongly used they contribute to the breaking down of self-control and mutual respect.”
[url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/family/documents/rc_pc_family_doc_20031201_family-values-safe-sex-trujillo_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontific...rujillo_en.html[/url][/quote]
[quote]Interview With President of Pontifical Council for the Family

VATICAN CITY, NOV. 11, 2003 (Zenit) - In this interview on Vatican Radio, Cardinal Alfonso López Trujillo, president of the Pontifical Council for the Family, emphasized the ineffectiveness of the condom as a contraceptive and in preventing sexually transmitted diseases.
[url="http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=488"]http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=488[/url][/quote]
[quote]Speaking on Vatican Radio, Cardinal López Trujillo argued that, because the HIV virus "is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon" and condoms have been known to fail as contraceptive devices, men and women took enormous risks if they entrusted their lives to latex in the belief that "safe sex" is, in fact, safe.
[url="http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=1&art_id=21427"]http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.a...=1&art_id=21427[/url][/quote]

[cappie]

[quote name='cappie' post='957576' date='Apr 23 2006, 01:56 PM']
Msgr. Angel Rodriguez Luño, an Opus Dei priest, a professor at Santa Croce University in Rome, and a consultor for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, has said there's actually not much debate over the theology; most moralists, he said, believe the argument for condoms as a lesser evil is fairly clear. The question is how to explain that conclusion in a way that doesn't seem to offer a free pass for irresponsible sexual behavior.

"The problem is, anytime we try to give a nuanced response, we see headlines that say, 'Vatican approves condoms,' Rodriguez Luño told The Washington Post Jan. 23, 2005.

"The issue is more complicated than that. From a moral point of view, we cannot condone contraception. We cannot tell a classroom of 16-year-olds they should use condoms. But if we are dealing with someone or a situation in which persons are clearly going to act in harmful ways, a prostitute who is going to continue her activities, then one might say, 'Stop. But if you are not going to, at least do this.'"
[/quote]

[goldenchild17]

I am very interested in how this all plays out. Even I(of all people here) would never have imagined the Vatican going this far... I hope it doesn't come to pass.

[Aloysius]

did no one pay attention to the artical I posted? top vatican official says there will be no change in the Vatican's policy towards condoms and aids. do not worry.

[toledo_jesus]

to reference cappie's previous post from the monsignor, I would put forth my own opinion that lay people don't need nuance. We need certainty and clear cut guidelines. The Church thinks much too highly of the individual layman's desire to understand finer points of the Faith.

Tell us! No meat on Friday.
Tell us! Go to Confession!
Tell us! Don't have sex before marriage.
Tell us! Don't use birth control. Ever. At all.
Tell us! The Eucharist is the literal Body and Blood.

If we ask for clarification, please provide it, but don't instruct us and then nuance us to death.

At least that's how I feel, having received very little of what I would consider clear guidance up to this point.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='959945' date='Apr 25 2006, 12:52 AM']
did no one pay attention to the artical I posted? top vatican official says there will be no change in the Vatican's policy towards condoms and aids. do not worry.
[/quote]

I am not worried.

Long live Benedict XVI!

And Cardinal Alfonso López Trujillo has it down just right too.

[missionarybelle]

I'm just really glad I'm not and never will be the pope so I will NEVER have to make big decissions like that.

[OLAM Dad]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='959993' date='Apr 25 2006, 06:09 AM']
to reference cappie's previous post from the monsignor, I would put forth my own opinion that lay people don't need nuance. We need certainty and clear cut guidelines. The Church thinks much too highly of the individual layman's desire to understand finer points of the Faith.

Tell us! No meat on Friday.
Tell us! Go to Confession!
Tell us! Don't have sex before marriage.
Tell us! Don't use birth control. Ever. At all.
Tell us! The Eucharist is the literal Body and Blood.

If we ask for clarification, please provide it, but don't instruct us and then nuance us to death.

At least that's how I feel, having received very little of what I would consider clear guidance up to this point.
[/quote]


[quote] Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "[b]Feed my lambs[/b]."

He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "[b]Tend my sheep[/b]."

He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." (Jesus) said to him, "[b]Feed my sheep[/b]."[/quote]

[prose]

[quote name='Old_Joe' post='959592' date='Apr 24 2006, 07:23 PM']
So condoms actually physically prevent the transmission of AIDS?
[/quote]

No, it just blocks the fluids from being exchanged. So technically, you are right.

[TheConvertKid]

Saw it on NBC Nightly News. This is not a hoax.

I just know that some Catholics are going to twist this around and use this as justification to use condoms for "recreational purposes". It's only a matter of time.

[jasJis]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='959993' date='Apr 25 2006, 05:09 AM']
to reference cappie's previous post from the monsignor, I would put forth my own opinion that lay people don't need nuance. We need certainty and clear cut guidelines. The Church thinks much too highly of the individual layman's desire to understand finer points of the Faith.

Tell us! No meat on Friday.
Tell us! Go to Confession!
Tell us! Don't have sex before marriage.
Tell us! Don't use birth control. Ever. At all.
Tell us! The Eucharist is the literal Body and Blood.

If we ask for clarification, please provide it, but don't instruct us and then nuance us to death.

At least that's how I feel, having received very little of what I would consider clear guidance up to this point.
[/quote]Sorry, toledo. God didn't make us that way. We have free will and intellect. We are self responsible for what we do to ourselves and others. We will do harm to ourselves and others, but the Good New is we can do good and heal as well. God makes both possible and real. We are not simple machines or simple beings. We are creatures of depth and nuance and uniqueness with unique circumstances, unique flaws, unique talents, unique gifts. The gate is visible but the way is hard and the path is narrow.

[Servant_of_Eve]

[quote name='Old_Joe' post='959537' date='Apr 24 2006, 08:34 PM']
I thought that condoms did little or nothing to prevent the transmission of HIV.
[/quote]


[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='959539' date='Apr 24 2006, 08:35 PM']
you thought wrong.
[/quote]

statistics show that on average condoms fail one out of every three times