Is it a sin to believe in magic?

[Theoketos]

I like the distinction that C.S. Lewis made in saying that magic creates an illusion with no reality and a mystery is a reality that may be impossible to see.l

[OLAM Dad]

[quote name='Theoketos' post='966936' date='May 1 2006, 10:47 AM']
I like the distinction that C.S. Lewis made in saying that magic creates an illusion with no reality and a mystery is a reality that may be impossible to see.l
[/quote]

[jezic]

believing in it is a good thing (in the sense that you were talking about)

Practicing it is another matter ... (*very bad*)

what do you mean by preternatural?

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='jezic' post='967204' date='May 1 2006, 02:08 PM']what do you mean by preternatural?[/quote]
from the [url="http://www.therealpresence.org/dictionary/dictaintro.htm"][b][i]Pocket Catholic Dictionary[/i][/b][/url]:[list][b]PRETERNATURAL.[/b] That which is beyond the natural but is not strictly supernatural. It is preternatural either because natural forces are used by God to produce effects beyond their native capacity, or because above-human forces, angelic or demonic, are active in the world of space and time. (Etym. Latin praeter, beyond + natura, nature.)

[b]PRETERNATURAL GIFTS.[/b] Favors granted by God above and beyond the powers or capacities of the nature that receives them but not beyond those of all created nature. Such gifts perfect nature but do not carry it beyond the limits of created nature. They include three great privileges to which human beings have no title -infused knowledge, absence of concupiscence, and bodily immortality. Adam and Eve possessed these gifts before the Fall.
[/list]

[jezic]

that last part is the catch.

These preternatural gifts, in that ideal world, were very good things. In our world they seem not to be quite as good because of the demonic forces that are active.

Some people think of chakras like this. It is probably the best explanation that we have.

While they aren't necessarily "natural" some gifts seem to have been a part of creation that were lost with the fall. Some i fear have figured out how to tap into this "magic".

[MichaelFilo]

So, I had a Satanic site in my history and visited it almost daily after going to Phatmass (because one ought to know, right?). Theres so much there, really, and while filling my ears with black metal (which indeed is Satanic, because, well, if they aren't talking about Satan, it is some pagan god(dess)) I came upon a very long list of spells and magicks (magick is the word used by the practitioners of the magic you speak of) thats are to be carried out and how they work within the context of the human body. Indeed, the idea of mana is not a foriegn one from the view of having "chakra" points but before I digress into the specifics (in fact, I'll avoid that, its of little importance) there was a statement made that ought to be clarified immedialty.

[quote]So, in Christianity, perhaps it can be said that the Consecration of the Host is a "magical" act. The priest performs the ritual and by Divine Grace we have the Consecration.[/quote]

The understanding of magick is that one has control over an element, which a priest NEVER does. In fact, a priest does not actual commit the change in the bread, nor does he do anything from his own "powers", but instead by dignity of his office, simply repeating the words of consecration causes the bread to change, but it is a change committed entirely by the Divine.

This is far removed from magick in which a person has some direct control of the force by invoking external forces. Consecration is a Divine action that (if my memory recalls) is claimed by some pagans as being a powerful magick committed by a congregation. It is neither done by priest nor congregation, and this ought to be pointed out, as this is hardly comparable to the evil nature of magic (which is, and always will be, evil because the angels only answer to God's commands, so the other source is the demons, which seek to fool thos who believe they have some dominance or power over them).

God bless,
Mikey

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' post='969072' date='May 2 2006, 09:09 PM']
there was a statement made that ought to be clarified immedialty.
The understanding of magick is that one has control over an element, which a priest NEVER does. In fact, a priest does not actual commit the change in the bread, nor does he do anything from his own "powers", but instead by dignity of his office, simply repeating the words of consecration causes the bread to change, but it is a change committed entirely by the Divine.

This is far removed from magick in which a person has some direct control of the force by invoking external forces. Consecration is a Divine action that (if my memory recalls) is claimed by some pagans as being a powerful magick committed by a congregation. It is neither done by priest nor congregation, and this ought to be pointed out, as this is hardly comparable to the evil nature of magic (which is, and always will be, evil because the angels only answer to God's commands, so the other source is the demons, which seek to fool thos who believe they have some dominance or power over them).

God bless,
Mikey
[/quote]
indeed, yes. The definition of magic I provided was "an attempt to channel or control" that mana or Grace or whatever. The priest [i]channels[/i] it as the Divine performs the actual "magic". The Consecration could happen without the priest, if God so willed it.

It's a valid comparison and I thought it was clear.