"Open Embrace" authors re-thinking NFP stance

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[url="http://www.openembrace.com/"]http://www.openembrace.com/[/url]

I was preparing to show this book (and the site) to a Protestant friend of mine regarding contraception, but when I googled the site to send it to her, I was SUPER glad I read it first. It now seems as if they are backing down a bit regarding NFP.

[quote]We now fully believe in the power of the Resurrection and we no longer live our lives constantly on the alert for "selfishness." Yes, we are marred by sin, but God has given us new hearts with his image strongly growing in them -- which means our deepest desires are true and good (see Waking the Dead by John Eldredge). One example: wanting to make love to your spouse often is a good thing, but [b]NFP often lays an unfair burden of guilt on men[/b] for feeling this.[/quote]

[quote]We still believe in the "language of the body"--which informs our rejection of some aspects of NFP. How is it that spouses are saying "yes" to the gift of each other when they end up abstaining for much of their married lives (from the aforementioned breastfeeding cycles, pregnancy exhaustion, or energy being diverted into raising kids)? We also see honest congruity with the language of the body by saying "no" to conception with our bodies (via barrier methods or sensual massage) when our minds and hearts are also saying "no" to conception. We don’t believe this angers God, nor that it leads to the slippery slope of relativism or divorce. We strongly disagree with the Catholic Church that this is a mortal sin.[/quote]

Thus, they are now only promoting "fertility awareness" and still reject the Pill and other abortifacients, but it seems as though they are no longer rejecting "barrier methods" and non-abortifacient means of contraception.

Say some prayers for them... this was a great step in the Protestant movement back towards embracing the full sanctity of life.

Any other thoughts/comments/rants/etc.?

[Brother Adam]

It is frustrating oftentimes. I'm the best man at a friends wedding and while they have agreed not to take the pill, and are looking into NFP, they do not reject that one can postpone children by any other means necessary.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

I'm a little miffed that Ascension Press is still publishing the husband's TOTB reflections... I don't think he could possibly truly understand TOTB and reject NFP and practice some forms of contraception.

Which, his reasoning for rejecting NFP is basically because "it's too hard". He has since deleted his post, but he formally posted on Amazon.com that he and his wife are "embarassed" by the book "Open Embrace".

Does anyone know if they are still connected with The Couple to Couple League?

[Birgitta Noel]

I'm not sure, but there's a great blog here about their retraction...
[url="http://squarezero.org/2006-0428/open-embarrassment/"]http://squarezero.org/2006-0428/open-embarrassment/[/url]

I will say this, when extended periods of abstinence are required for serious reasons many do find NFP difficult.

[prose]

I have such a hard time with this.

I had some friend in university who were STRONG christians. They never even kissed until they were at the altar. Afterwards I approached her and suggested maybe I could teach them the Billings Method (b/c my hubby and I teach it), and she said "no thanks we are going on the pill".

I was shocked!

I explained to her the most obvious objection to the pill, that it partly works as an abortifacient, and she said she was going on one that "didn't work that way". Our society has been fooled by the contraceptive mentality.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Birgitta Noel' post='966767' date='May 1 2006, 10:51 AM']
I'm not sure, but there's a great blog here about their retraction...
[url="http://squarezero.org/2006-0428/open-embarrassment/"]http://squarezero.org/2006-0428/open-embarrassment/[/url]

I will say this, when extended periods of abstinence are required for serious reasons many do find NFP difficult.
[/quote]
I shot off a letter to ascension press as I remember seeing his books at a Christopher West talk I went to...

Call me crazy, but I can imagine a man who embraces contraception as having a good and thorough understanding of JPII's Theology of Body enough to be publishing books in "reflections" on TOTB.

It worries me.

[toledo_jesus]

[MichaelFilo]

It's sad, but alas, if all of us could agree, do it and if the kids come they come, NFP woul dbe a non-issue. Why can't we just go back to viewing children as a gift, not something to be avoided if possible.

I would agree, NFP does put an unneccessary burden, but that the solution given is hardly the answer. The answer is to let whatever kids come, come. Alas, whenever the mind says no to conception, something is wrong in the heart.

God bless,
Mikey

[Birgitta Noel]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' post='967774' date='May 1 2006, 09:21 PM']
Alas, whenever the mind says no to conception, something is wrong in the heart.

God bless,
Mikey
[/quote]

That's not quite fair. There are people who have just/grave reasons for using NFP to not have children either for a time or indefinitely.

[jswranch]

[quote name='prose' post='966797' date='May 1 2006, 08:12 AM']
Afterwards I approached her and suggested maybe I could teach them the Billings Method (b/c my hubby and I teach it), and she said "no thanks we are going on the pill".

I was shocked!

I explained to her the most obvious objection to the pill, that it partly works as an abortifacient, and she said she was going on one that "didn't work that way". Our society has been fooled by the contraceptive mentality.
[/quote]

[url="http://www.omsoul.com/item531.html"]http://www.omsoul.com/item531.html[/url]
Send her a free copy of Janet Smith's talk "Cotraception, Why not?"

[LSW]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' post='966342' date='Apr 30 2006, 08:37 PM']Which, his reasoning for rejecting NFP is basically because "it's too hard". [/quote]

This is pretty much the reason behind most people's rejection of Christianity and the Church in particular.

Edited May 2, 2006 by LSW

[Laudate_Dominum]

what is sensual massage? I mean, I thought I knew what that means but how is that an alternative to NFP? Do they mean masturbation or something?

[MichaelFilo]

Mutual probably.

As far as a just or grave reason, I'd like to posit that the practitions of NFP are composed partially of that group, but it's hardly worth considering it some majority. Alas, the idea behind NFP is much the same of that of contraception with a twist, it's an attempt to salvage the dedication to be open to life, and yet avoid life if possible. It's a step up from contraception in that it certainly is within moral bounds, but it's basic attitude with conception is one of avoidance if possible.

Regardless, in reference to the site, that is really bad news, but again, one must be convinced of the immorality of contraception to give it up, and spilling of the seed is hardly something considered by Protestants.

God bless
Mikey

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Wow... this is awesome (and unexpected)

[quote]Dear Jillian,

Thank you for letting us know your concerns about Sam Torode's new position on NFP and contraception. We were unaware of this issue, and are certainly grateful that you have brought it to our attention. We agree with you that there is no room for contraception in the Theology of the Body or in the overall teaching of the Catholic Church on human sexuality. We stand fully with the Church on these issues, and are proud to do so.

I am writing to let you know that we will no longer be carrying the books, Body and Gift and Purity of Heart, by Sam Torode. Thanks again, and God bless you.

Sincerely in Christ,

Chris Cope
Director of Marketing
Ascension Press[/quote]

...everyone support Ascension Press!!!

[Fides_et_Ratio]

An article put up by Sam Torode yesterday: [url="http://www.torodedesign.com/NEW/article.html"]http://www.torodedesign.com/NEW/article.html[/url]

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

Well it is good that publisher came around. Sex for pleasure only makes little sense to me. If contraceptive sex is perfectly okay, then self sex (masturbation) and using pornography makes sense, its pleasurable, and it is contraceptive. Yes, the Catholics have this one right.

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' post='973262' date='May 6 2006, 02:57 AM']
Well it is good that publisher came around. Sex for pleasure only makes little sense to me. If contraceptive sex is perfectly okay, then self sex (masturbation) and using pornography makes sense, its pleasurable, and it is contraceptive. Yes, the Catholics have this one right.
[/quote]
visit more often. you'll see this is not the only one that "we get right"

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

I'm here quite often and know the Catholic faith probably as much as the average Catholic, at least the average Catholic around here. I just don't post much. We have our agreements and our disagreements.

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' post='973269' date='May 6 2006, 03:00 AM']
I'm here quite often and know the Catholic faith probably as much as the average Catholic, at least the average Catholic around here. I just don't post much. We have our agreements and our disagreements.
[/quote]
i see. i encourage you to post more often, i would love to hear your opinions. i'm pretty sure others do too

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

Naa, you just want to convert me. I understand though. I would want to convert me if I were in your shoes too.

God Bless.