The Pope and World War II

[Lounge Daddy]

[b]DEFENDING THE CHURCH[/b]

So I am working 3rd shift for a while – and a protestant co-worker, discovering I’m Catholic and willing to discuss my faith when asked told me that he wants to talk to me about the Pope during World War 2 and the “silence” of the Catholic Church

I already have a good idea of what he is getting at, and have some general knowledge, but I need to brush up on this … and I want to be sure
What claims are made and what is the truth?
I am off tonight and will be doing my homework.

Thanx for the back-up
--- LD

[jezic]

i think it was a recent attack against the Church again.

If i remember correctly it was proven false. There is a book out called Hitler's pope (edit: That is the bad one. The good ones are listed below) or something like that which debunks the theory.

[Desert Walker]

The claim against Pope Pius XII is that he was a Nazi sympathizer or even collaborator. This is a calumny popularized by a book titled [i]Hitler's Pope[/i], and "progressive" liberals in the church eager to detract from the character of an obviously saintly pontiff.

The slanderous accusations in Hitler's Pope are refuted in a book titled [i]The Myth of Hitler's Pope[/i].

The VERY weird thing about this is that a friend of mine called me last night and asked me to talk to one of HIS friends about this very subject. He put her on the line and I proceeded to explain why Pius XII was not a friend of the Nazis, and that the Nazis actually considered HIM their enemy.

The historical evidence is hard to refute: Pius XII can be personally credited with orchestrating the rescue of over 700,000 Jews during WWII.

But conspiracy theorists, with their vastly superior intellect, understand that this was a just a cover for his collaboration with the Nazis AGAINST the Jews.

[jezic]

i knew there was a book.

[Era Might]

What you may be thinking of is "Hitler, the War, and the Pope" by Ronald Rychlak. Excellent, excellent book. I highly recommend it. Also the recent book by Rabbi Dalin is supposed to be good (don't have that one, though).

I'd suggest you show your co-worker some of the testimony of those individuals and organizations who PRAISED Pius after the war. Einstein said something to the effect of what he once despised (the Church) he now admired because of Pope Pius. The New York Times praised him on their cover.

Pius XII will be canonized some day. He was a great, great Pope.

From Einstein:

[quote]Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.[/quote]

Here's a good little article to get you started:

[url="http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/truth.htm"]http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/truth.htm[/url]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='969545' date='May 3 2006, 09:29 AM']
[b]DEFENDING THE CHURCH[/b]

So I am working 3rd shift for a while – and a protestant co-worker, discovering I’m Catholic and willing to discuss my faith when asked told me that he wants to talk to me about the Pope during World War 2 and the “silence” of the Catholic Church

I already have a good idea of what he is getting at, and have some general knowledge, but I need to brush up on this … and I want to be sure
What claims are made and what is the truth?
I am off tonight and will be doing my homework.

Thanx for the back-up
--- LD
[/quote]
LD, please pick up the book, [u]The Myth of Hitler's Pope[/u] by Rabbi Dalin. it will be very helpful. also, [u]Pope Fiction[/u] by Patrick Madrid has a whole chapter dedicated to this topic. many people still believe that Pope Pius XII did nothing to help the Jewish people during the Holocaust when the opposite is true.

btw, recent documents have shown that Hitler was planning to kidnap the Pope and place his own anti-Pope in Belgium - that's how much of a threat Pope Pius XII was to the Nazis.

i just did a whole youth group night on this, LD, so if you have any questions, just pm me.

[LSW]

I believe the chief Rabbi of Rome(I forget his name) became a Catholic after the war because of Pope Pius XII efforts to save Jews from the Nazis.

[Lil Red]

it was Rabbi Abraham Zolli, the chief Rabbi of Rome - he converted to the Catholic Faith, taking Eugenio - Pope Pius XII's own name - as his baptismal name

[LSW]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='970028' date='May 3 2006, 05:02 PM']
it was Rabbi Abraham Zolli, the chief Rabbi of Rome - he converted to the Catholic Faith, taking Eugenio - Pope Pius XII's own name - as his baptismal name
[/quote]

There it is

[Lounge Daddy]

thanks every one
from your info, some articles i found at Crisis magazine, Amazon.com book reviews of Rychlak, Dalin, and John Cornwell, as well as the Catholic League info and a great book that i bought long ago titled "The Compact History of The Catholic Church" by Alan Schreck ...i think i have some awesome notes prepared for the conversation with my co-worker

thanks again and God bless you all
you are awesome

[Lounge Daddy]

awesome - he thanked me for helping to clear things up
thanks everyone

[LSW]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='972151' date='May 5 2006, 09:40 AM']
awesome - he thanked me for helping to clear things up
thanks everyone
[/quote]

Cool. Your co-worker sounds like someone who was willing to listen to and accept the truth on this
matter. Not many are so receptive.

[ruso]

The truth is that the majority of the Italian Jews were saved from the holocaust, and not for the communist partisans precisely, the intervention of Francicans and others it was decisive, Pio XII knew the facts.
Also there was a plan of Hitler to kidnap to Pio XII, fortunately he did not fall down in the pitfall.
The principal calumnies do not come from the liberals, but of many Jewish communities, some for ignorance and others for bad faith.

[isilzha]

I just finished last week a historiography paper on Pius XII for a class. It was interesting looking at how the perception of Pius has changed over time.

[phatcatholic]

i have more links on this issue than on any other topic in the directory. when you click on this link, note the small link for pg. 2 at the bottom.
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/344"]http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/344[/url]

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='phatcatholic' post='976689' date='May 9 2006, 07:49 PM']
i have more links on this issue than on any other topic in the directory. when you click on this link, note the small link for pg. 2 at the bottom.
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/344"]http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/344[/url]
[/quote]

phatcatholic is so amazingly cool

[Lounge Daddy]

[b][size=2]Hitler's Mufti[/size][/b]

for me the most interesting thing i found was:
1 - the misconception of the wartime Pope over time (a lie repeated often enough...)

2 - Hitler DID have a cleric who personally aided him... but this cleric was far from a Catholic Christian

Hitler's aid was the Islamic "Grand" Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini

An article by Rabbi David G. Dalin on myth of "Hitler’s Pope" that not only do many people today believe this lie...
[quote]"But there’s something else that has been ignored nearly all together. Precisely at the moment when Pope Pius XII and the Catholic Church in Rome (and throughout Europe) was saving thousands of Jewish lives, Hitler had a cleric broadcasting from Berlin who called for the extermination of the Jews.

He was Hajj Amin al-Husseini, the viciously anti-Semitic Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who resided in Berlin as a welcome guest and ally of the Nazis throughout the years of the Holocaust.

As I point out in my book, The Myth of Hitler’s Pope, the outrageous calumny directed against Pope Pius XII has not only besmirched the reputation of a man who did more than any other religious leader to save Jewish lives, it has deflected attention from the horrible truth of Hajj Amin al-Husseini—who continues to be a revered figure in the Muslim world.[/quote]
[url="http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=19064"]--- from Front Page Magazine August 2005[/url]

The Mufti was also one of Adolf Eichmann closest friends and advisors, to the point of being accused of being a chief architect of Hitler's "final solution."

[quote]The affidavit also reported on instances when Eichmann was willing to send Jewish prisoners to Palestine, but Husseini intervened and the prisoners were killed. When pressed by an underling to explain why they could not just be deported, Eichmann reportedly said: “I am a personal friend of the Grand Mufti. We have promised him that no European Jew would enter Palestine any more. Do you understand now?”

Three letters from the mufti, written in 1944, verify his opposition to sending Jews to Palestine. Addressing the foreign offices of Bulgaria, Hungary, and Romania, Husseini wrote: “I beg Your excellency to permit me to draw your distinguished attention to the necessity of preventing these Jews from leaving your country for Palestine; and if there are any reasons which make their withdrawal necessary,” that they be sent to “other countries, as for example Poland, where they would find themselves under active surveillance.” As critics have noted, Jews in Poland at this time were all being executed. [/quote]
[url="http://www.crisismagazine.com/december2005/rychlak.htm"]--- from Crisis Magazine, Dec 2005[/url]

It's tragic when lies are taken as fact, but it is dangerously irresponsible when truth is deliberately masked by dishonesty.

[img]http://www.crisismagazine.com/images/dec2005.jpg[/img]

[Lil Red]

thanks LD! :