Jewish Statuary

[Anna]

Here's a sample:

Often referred to as "Judaica," the Jewish Faith is almost as rich in statuary and artworks as is the Catholic Church.

Some Bible-twisting people have been coming on this phorum making wild claims and accusations, including the LIE that the Jewish people don't make statues.

Wrong, sorry.

Pax Christi. <><

[beng]

Cool.

[Anna]

Beautiful Jewish wedding cups:

Notice the pretty carvings of people?

Edited December 27, 2003 by Anna

[Circle_Master]

They don't make any of the LORD (YHVH). Of course they make different things, they were commanded to by God at one point. Heck, they don't even say the LORD's name, or write it. They've even forgotten the pronunciation of the tetragrammaton.

[Anna]

So?

They make graven images of things upon earth, such as people. But Bruce said that they don't, because by his protestant interpretation, Mosaic Law forbids the very carving of images.

He claimed that people of the Jewish Faith don't carve images, as commanded by God to Moses.

I have just demonstrated that they do.

The commandment Bruce cited didn't mention carving images of the Lord; it forbade the creation and worshipping ofimages of creatures on the earth, in the sky, or in the sea.

Bruce seems to think that God forbade the very making of such items; while history and tradition seems to point out that the carvings are not sinful, nor idolatrous, but worshipping said carvings would be.

Pax Christi. <><

Edited December 27, 2003 by Anna

[cmotherofpirl]

They don't make any of the LORD (YHVH). Of course they make different things, they were commanded to by God at one point. Heck, they don't even say the LORD's name, or write it. They've even forgotten the pronunciation of the tetragrammaton.

Actually thats not true. It depends on the jew, some of whom are very devote, and some haven't been to shul since their circumcision. THere is a great diversity of jewish thought as in anything else.

[cmotherofpirl]

THere is a judaica center abouit two blocks from my MIL with the loveliest things to look at. I would buy some of it, buy its all out of my price range.

[Circle_Master]

Actually thats not true. It depends on the jew, some of whom are very devote, and some haven't been to shul since their circumcision. THere is a great diversity of jewish thought as in anything else.

well of course for the liberals. but then again there are groups of 'christians' which handle snakes, or do all kinds of things, but that isn't the 'norm' of Christianity. Conservative Jews, i.e. the hasidic, or conservative or ultra-conservative believe this and act on it. There is as wide a diversity in judaism as there is in Christianity. I'm talking about the conservative ones which still believe that there is a God. Since these are most similar to the ones we find from 400 B.C. on.

[Paladin D]

What's the problem with handling snakes? I've been hearing that recently.

[PedroX]

So, the Hasidim are the only true expression of Judaism? Or is it the Orthodox? Or is it the members of the Shaz party in Israel? Or members of the Reformed Movement? Since you get to set all the rules for our debate, just let us know and we'll go do the research for which ever group you pick. Just one small favor, please, this time, once you pick a group you've got to stay with it.

peace...

[Circle_Master]

So, the Hasidim are the only true expression of Judaism? Or is it the Orthodox? Or is it the members of the Shaz party in Israel? Or members of the Reformed Movement? Since you get to set all the rules for our debate, just let us know and we'll go do the research for which ever group you pick. Just one small favor, please, this time, once you pick a group you've got to stay with it.

peace...

haha, if you want to debate like that it will be impossible to debate.

If I say Judaism, and I mention Scripture, and I mention how they did it, that is past tense. It is common sense to associate that with how the Jews used to function before they became so diverse. Please keep this civil.. I'm not finding much joy in responding to you, or much in the word choices you use.

[foundsheep]

He asked a simple question.

[Anna]

So then, you're saying that the statuary and judaica I pictured above are only used by liberal jews, but the conservatives wouldn't use such a thing in their worship, and the conservatives follow the Mosaic law, while the liberals depart from it....????

And you get your information on Judaism from......??????

Pax Christi. <><

[Circle_Master]

So then, you're saying that the statuary and judaica I pictured above are only used by liberal jews, but the conservatives wouldn't use such a thing in their worship, and the conservatives follow the Mosaic law, while the liberals depart from it....????

And you get your information on Judaism from......??????

Pax Christi. <><

no, if you read up I said Jews will not make imagery of YHVH. I never attempted to argue for anything more. That was an assumption on your part.

[PedroX]

Circle Master,

I am having trouble tracing back all the threads and posts related to this, but I believe that Bruce made the original post saying that Jews don't make images and that we should look to them about the making of images. We disproved this scripturally and that wasn't enough. We then (thanks Anna) disproved this from modern examples, and you seemed to think that they Jews we used to prove this weren't the right ones. I'm sorry if I misread you on that, but it seems that every time we bring something up, you and Bruce just dance away from it and claim we aren't proving anything. I simply said that if you picked a set of Jews as the Jews you wanted to talk about then we could examine those Jews. As for the business of making statues of YHVH, no one does that so what is the point of arguing it?

peace...

[Circle_Master]

They don't make any of the LORD (YHVH). Of course they make different things, they were commanded to by God at one point. Heck, they don't even say the LORD's name, or write it. They've even forgotten the pronunciation of the tetragrammaton.

That was my first post that people started arguing against me by.

[Anna]

That's not the point of this thread, Circle Master.

Bruce S claims that God forbids the making of all graven images, and he further claims that Jews know the Mosaic Law better than Catholics and that we should look to the Jews, since Jews do not make any graven images or statues.

I'm simply saying, yes, they do.

And I provided some pictures of their sculptures, silverwork, and Judaica. However, they do not worship these objects. And Catholics do not worship our imagaes. It is the worshipping of a manmade image which God considers idolatry; not the mere making of an image.

That is the point of this thread.

Pax Christi. <><