There is no salvation outside the church

[jasJis]

Tarcius,
You make me proud to have a non-Catholic label, though it saddens me to do so.

[son_of_angels]

One thing I would suggest is that while, yes, it is possible some Protestants may well go to heaven due to ignorance or other factors, nevertheless this is NOT a basis for true ecumenism. After all, when you base ecumenism on this it is claiming some kind of human superiority over the person with whom you are trying to dialogue.

Instead we need to base ecumenism on a desire to UNDERSTAND one another, to see, as Catholics, the ongoing work of the Spirit throughout the world, and to cooperate in common worldwide moral goals. We should be careful, however, to not cease our evangelistic efforts, of which the above are part, and to trust in the wisdom of God to execute final judgment.

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

[quote name='Tarcisius' post='975701' date='May 8 2006, 09:00 PM']
"We should strive to bring all into the fullness of the Catholic Faith, but leave the judging of men's immortal souls to God."

Very True, but if Catholics do not realize that there prot friends are very truly most likley going to hell, as many saints have preached, a sense of urgency is lost. People become complacent, heck it even makes sense to not convert them, there very good prots, its easy to be a good prot, they might not make good Catholics, there going to get heaven if they dont change so why bother.
[/quote]

Aww, I love you too Tarcisius (isn't he a martyr?). Based on your Catholic theology, I can say that I don't believe active membership in your church is necessary for salvation. I wouldn't say I'm rejecting "the fact" that it is necessary. I don't see it as fact. And if I could be convinced otherwise, I'd be happy to be so. I have a concern for my salvation and desire to be saved.

[AngelofJesus]

So even though the protestant knows full well the truth of catholicism they are not condemed to hell for not converting? What if the Holy Spirit is leading them to convert but they hold firm to being protestant only becaue of their fear of repudiation from their friends and family? Given that this said person fully lives God's laws.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='AngelofJesus' post='975821' date='May 9 2006, 12:44 AM']
So even though the protestant knows full well the truth of catholicism they are not condemed to hell for not converting? What if the Holy Spirit is leading them to convert but they hold firm to being protestant only becaue of their fear of repudiation from their friends and family? Given that this said person fully lives God's laws.
[/quote]

I think the point is they don't know full well the truth of Catholicism. Even if they know some doctrines they probably don't understand them and think that they are heretical. I know I did. It took what, three years on phatmass and talking to other friends to break me? It took a complete and total reorientation of my worldview.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Brother Adam

[frozencell]

Bro Adam,

I'm glad to see you made the switch. And, man, good ol' Bob. I haven't had th pleasure of talking to him for quite a while now. It takes forever to get a new password and screen name for BB these days.

Just because you know what the CC teaches doesn't mean you personally are convicted that it is the truth. Therefore, you are not rejecting anything really. But if you are just holding out on the CC because you don't want your friends and family to make fun of you or give you a hard time is something completely different, I think. My family (especially my mom) gave me hell about it. That didn't stop me though.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='frozencell' post='975896' date='May 9 2006, 03:27 AM']
Bro Adam,

I'm glad to see you made the switch. And, man, good ol' Bob. I haven't had th pleasure of talking to him for quite a while now. It takes forever to get a new password and screen name for BB these days.

Just because you know what the CC teaches doesn't mean you personally are convicted that it is the truth. Therefore, you are not rejecting anything really. But if you are just holding out on the CC because you don't want your friends and family to make fun of you or give you a hard time is something completely different, I think. My family (especially my mom) gave me hell about it. That didn't stop me though.
[/quote]

I didn't quite understand my mom. She wasn't Catholic, but as long as I wasn't Baptist, just about anything was A-OK with her lol. But haha. Jokes on her. Now she attends mass every sunday and is on the road home.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='975824' date='May 8 2006, 09:47 PM']
I think the point is they don't know full well the truth of Catholicism. Even if they know some doctrines they probably don't understand them and think that they are heretical. I know I did. It took what, three years on phatmass and talking to other friends to break me? It took a complete and total reorientation of my worldview.
[/quote]


Yes.

Eph.4
[23] and be renewed in the spirit of your minds,
Col.3
[10] and have put on the new nature, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.

Rom.12
[2] Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Those outside the Church do not think like a Catholic. Even Protestant Christians.

They are at a severe disadvantage in understanding because they do not have the shepherds that God has given us in our bishops.

Jer.3
[15] "`And I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding

Thus it is quite possible they are in true ignorance. We plant seeds in them that hopefully will grow in to an acceptance and understanding of the faith. But God makes the seeds grow (I planted, apollos watered, but the Lord made it grow) by his grace. We cannot judge what grace he has given to make this happen. Though it is concerning that he "desires that all men be saved and COME TO A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH". Thus it would seem that he would give all the grace to come to the truth.

Edited May 9, 2006 by thessalonian