Woah the fall of angels!

[N/A Gone]

ok, so its late and Im on my 2nd energy drink and my 5th cd and I am writing something about the Mormon concept of the fall and it made me wonder. Because to my knowledge their is not much scripture reference to the fall of angels and the war in heaven. I know Isi speaks alil of it. the daystar concepts. but the story of the pride of satan and the fall is an ecumenically accepted concept. Anyone know how the concept developed?

btw, the Isiah story(12) has awesome language with it.

**random thought, I have a 10th of the post of phatty, does that make me a 10th of the man?

[scardella]

I think the usual scripture they point to is Rev. 12:1-9

[quote]A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
- Revelation 12:1-9[/quote]

[morostheos]

This is a really interesting question. My students here at the campus ministry were quick to point out to me that nothing in the Bible talks about how God created lucifer as the greatest of the angels and he chose not to follow God. Even that passage in Revelation just says that the dragon appeared, it doesn't say how. Some claimed that it all comes from Dante and has just been incorporated into belief since then, but I think they're probably mistaken.

[N/A Gone]

Isiah refers to him as the morning star, the greatest star in the sky

[toledo_jesus]

I tend not to worry too much about the Fall. It's cool and stuff but pointless for our purposes...

It makes for really great and epic stories until you realize that there wasn't much of a struggle...Darkness can't stand Light and so the very presence of the angels, and through them God, would be enough to dispel the rebellious ones. So...basically God is omnipotent and the Devil is stupid.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Hey, my website on this may finally prove worthy of its making! Click:
[url="http://www.catholicfiles.com/slpst.html"]http://www.catholicfiles.com/slpst.html[/url]

An interesting topic, but not talked about too much. I managed to find the thoughts of a few Fathers, even St. Jerome. I should think he of all people knows the Bible...

The Catechism:
[quote] II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS

391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy. Scripture and the Church's Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called "Satan" or the "devil". The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing."

392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels. This "fall" consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter's words to our first parents: "You will be like God." The devil "has sinned from the beginning"; he is "a liar and the father of lies".

393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels' sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."

394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls "a murderer from the beginning", who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father." The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil." In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God.[/quote]

Edited May 16, 2006 by thedude

[phatcatholic]

dude, these two articles from new advent have everything u need on the fall of the angels:

Angel (see the subtitle "the evil angels")
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm[/url]

Devil
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htm[/url]

peace,
phatcatholic