Theoketos Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='982539' date='May 16 2006, 12:04 PM'] [img]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/TFOGSON/dvc.jpg[/img] >_> An image is worth a thousand words. [/quote] That means that who ever designed the cover at doubleday is reasonable, it does negate the fact that Dan Brown claims to be legit or that the thosands take his 'research' as fact. >_> [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='982549' date='May 16 2006, 12:19 PM'] If they can somehow incorporate carnage and/or female flesh, then I beg to differ. [/quote] agreed
ChrisZewe Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='Theoketos' post='982556' date='May 16 2006, 01:22 PM'] That means that who ever designed the cover at doubleday is reasonable, it does negate the fact that Dan Brown claims to be legit or that the thosands take his 'research' as fact. >_> [/quote] Hundreds of millions believe that the Hindu faith is truth, and yet you don't attack Hindu works that are presented as fact...many many more Hindus who believe that the universe exists in Vishnu's mouth than there are those who believe Brown's nonsense.
Theoketos Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='982559' date='May 16 2006, 12:25 PM'] Hundreds of millions believe that the Hindu faith is truth, and yet you don't attack Hindu works that are presented as fact...many many more Hindus who believe that the universe exists in Vishnu's mouth than there are those who believe Brown's nonsense. [/quote] Good point, but the Hindu religion does not claim to represent the Christian faith. Further, it would behoove me to dialogue with my Hindu brothers, both for my sake and theirs, (espcailly theirs if Christianity is all that is it cracked up to be, as God is Love.) Lastly, I am glad to hear you say that I do not attack Hindus. I am not sure that I have attacked anyone sense the fourth grade playground. Man you are lobbing softballs today, Chris...
ChrisZewe Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='Theoketos' post='982562' date='May 16 2006, 01:34 PM'] Man you are lobbing softballs today, Chris... [/quote] x.x Trying not to get banned again.
Desert Walker Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Ok fine. if it's so wrong to shout LIAR! when someone lies, next lie that comes my way I'll just sit like a dummy and watch people get fooled. Great plan. That's how social leaders have been leading people like lemmings for thousands of years. I CAN'T WAIT TO JUMP INTO THE WATER!!!
Theoketos Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='982568' date='May 16 2006, 12:35 PM'] x.x Trying not to get banned again. [/quote] Good for you. Maybe I will be less of an easier target for rude jokes, but I cannot promise anything.
ironmonk Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 [url="http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-05-16T141126Z_01_L16732669_RTRUKOC_0_US-LEISURE-DAVINCI-RELIGION.xml&src=rss&rpc=22"]http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle....&src=rss&rpc=22[/url] [quote][b]Reading "Da Vinci Code" does alter beliefs: survey[/b] LONDON (Reuters) - "The Da Vinci Code" has undermined faith in the Roman Catholic Church and badly damaged its credibility, a survey of British readers of Dan Brown's bestseller showed on Tuesday. People are now twice as likely to believe Jesus Christ fathered children after reading the Dan Brown blockbuster and four times as likely to think the conservative Catholic group Opus Dei is a murderous sect. "An alarming number of people take its spurious claims very seriously indeed," said Austin Ivereigh, press secretary to Britain's top Catholic prelate Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor. "Our poll shows that for many, many people the Da Vinci Code is not just entertainment," Ivereigh added. ... ORB interviewed more than 1,000 adults last weekend, finding that 60 percent believed Jesus had children by Mary Magdalene -- a possibility raised by the book -- compared with just 30 percent of those who had not read the book. ... In the survey, readers were asked if Opus Dei had ever carried out a murder. Seventeen percent of readers believe it had, compared with just four percent of non-readers.[/quote] Some say "OH, but it's just a fiction book." They ignore that the author claims the book to be based on factual research. [b]1868 [/b] Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them: -by [u]participating directly and voluntarily in them[/u]; -by ordering, advising, praising, or [u]approving them[/u]; -by [u]not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so[/u]; -by [u]protecting evil-doers[/u]. It is a sad day when a Christian sees nothing wrong with this "story". The cause? Maybe lack of reverence, maybe a lack of knowledge, maybe a lack of understanding... but in any case a Christian to support this film by seeing it, is a cause of great saddness.
ironmonk Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Just think if this ends up being the major cause of great persecution of the Church during the end times. For you SAT/ACT fans... Dan Brown is to the Catholic Church what Michael Moore is to the Bush Administration
curtins Posted May 16, 2006 Author Posted May 16, 2006 Its not so much that would be bad in and of its self for a good strong Catholic to see the movie- its that they would be supporting something that is turning many souls away from the truth (I've seen it happen personally), disgraces our Lord, and is a real danger to many souls. Personally I know I can't see it because throughout the whole movie I would refute everything. You don't need to see the movie to be informed about the Da vinci code. Read the Da Vinci Hoax or check the Da Vinci Code out at ur local libary
Socrates Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='curtins' post='982648' date='May 16 2006, 12:41 PM'] Its not so much that would be bad in and of its self for a good strong Catholic to see the movie- its that they would be supporting something that is turning many souls away from the truth (I've seen it happen personally), disgraces our Lord, and is a real danger to many souls. Personally I know I can't see it because throughout the whole movie I would refute everything. You don't need to see the movie to be informed about the Da vinci code. Read the Da Vinci Hoax or check the Da Vinci Code out at ur local libary [/quote] Ditto. And I find it interesting that the same people here who insist that all Catholics are obligated to support all the USCCB's statements concerning federal spending ands economic policy or Cardinal Mahoney's opinions regarding immigration laws, etc., are the same ones who are perfectly fine with completely disregarding the Vatican's statements about watching the Da Vinci Code.
cappie Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Archbishops say Da Vinci boycott not necessary Catholics were free to watch The Da Vinci Code movie but should remember its central claims are fictional, two Australian Archbishops said ahead of tomorrow's box office release. The Age reports that Melbourne's Archbishop Denis Hart said he would leave it to people to make a mature judgement about whether or not to watch the movie, but they should be sure of their facts. Archbishop Hart said the The Da Vinci Code is a story with an intriguing plot, but "it goes to the heart of the Catholic religion because it makes allegations which are not in any way substantiated by fact." "It will be hurtful to a lot of Christians. The church has not tried to suppress anything, Jesus was not married, he is God. People should read the Gospels to discover the truth about Jesus," he said. Many church leaders around the world have urged Christians to boycott the film - based on the best-selling but wildly inaccurate novel by Dan Brown. Meanwhile Archbishop Philip Wilson, the newly elected President of the Bishops Conference, believes people should see the movie but take it as just a fictional story. AAP reports that Archbishop Wilson said he had not read Dan Brown's best selling book which explores theories - embraced by millions of readers - that Jesus married Mary Magdalene, who had their child and that the bloodline survives. Theologians say there is no evidence in the scriptures to support the marriage theory, although some believe Mary Magdalene was a close follower of Jesus. But many church leaders see the film as a new opportunity to reach the wider community. Perth Archbishop Barry Hickey, chairman of the bishops' media committee, said the church welcomed any interest in Jesus Christ generated by The Da Vinci Code, and had compiled resources to help people. The Australian Catholic Bishops' Committee last month set up a web resource site on the book and movie (www.acbc.catholic.org.au/DaVinciCode.html). Archbishop Wilson said the church was preparing some material on The Da Vinci Code, which it would make available to Catholic schools and parishioners in South Australia over the next week. "A kit which just puts the claims of the movie in the right perspective," he said.
Jaime Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='Socrates' post='982783' date='May 16 2006, 04:50 PM'] Ditto. And I find it interesting that the same people here who insist that all Catholics are obligated to support all the USCCB's statements concerning federal spending ands economic policy or Cardinal Mahoney's opinions regarding immigration laws, etc., are the same ones who are perfectly fine with completely disregarding the Vatican's statements about watching the Da Vinci Code. [/quote] Really.. And who's ignoring it Soc? The good cardinal states he does not object to anyone seeing the film if they understand its fiction. He's the Vatican's authority on cultural issues. If you're after hypocrisy, keep looking.
Cam42 Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 Oh Ironmonk...... You still have not answered my proposition.....is it because you can't????? Methinks it is..... SHOW SOLID PROOF THAT CARDINAL POUPARD OR ANY OTHER BISHOP HAS DEEMED THIS TO BE A SIN REQUIRING CONFESSION OR RELENT. [quote]Cardinal Paul Poupard, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture, on Monday told Europe 1 radio he had no objection to people seeing the film if they understand it is fiction, but many would watch this "nonsense" and think that it was true.[/quote] [quote]Catholics were free to watch The Da Vinci Code movie but should remember its central claims are fictional, two Australian Archbishops said ahead of tomorrow's box office release.[/quote] The heirarchy of the Church is pretty clear and consistent on this.....not a sin. They are simply reminding us that as we go, not to forget that it is a work of fiction. You can quote the Catechism all you like Ironmonk, but you are incorrectly applying your view to the Catechetical teaching...... hot stuff had it right earlier today.
Theoketos Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' post='983091' date='May 16 2006, 08:00 PM'] Oh Ironmonk...... You still have not answered my proposition.....is it because you can't????? Methinks it is..... SHOW SOLID PROOF THAT CARDINAL POUPARD OR ANY OTHER BISHOP HAS DEEMED THIS TO BE A SIN REQUIRING CONFESSION OR RELENT. [/quote] From Reuters... At the Vatican, language from some church leaders has been equally strong. Last month, powerful Archbishop Angelo Amato, the second-ranking official in the Vatican's Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, said Catholics should "should boycott 'The Da Vinci Code' and speak out against it and reject its lies against the church." Soon after, highly visible Nigerian Cardinal Francis Arinze said Christians should consider "legal means" against the film and the book, though he did not elaborate. [url="http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=entertainmentNews&storyid=2006-05-16T101753Z_01_N16361386_RTRUKOC_0_US-DAVINCI.xml&src=rss&rpc=22"]http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle....&src=rss&rpc=22[/url]
ironmonk Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='Theoketos' post='983288' date='May 16 2006, 10:24 PM'] From Reuters... At the Vatican, language from some church leaders has been equally strong. Last month, powerful Archbishop Angelo Amato, the second-ranking official in the Vatican's Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, said Catholics should "should boycott 'The Da Vinci Code' and speak out against it and reject its lies against the church." Soon after, highly visible Nigerian Cardinal Francis Arinze said Christians should consider "legal means" against the film and the book, though he did not elaborate. [url="http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=entertainmentNews&storyid=2006-05-16T101753Z_01_N16361386_RTRUKOC_0_US-DAVINCI.xml&src=rss&rpc=22"]http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle....&src=rss&rpc=22[/url] [/quote] Theoketos, Thanks for replying. His question has already been answered. No where did I write that it was a mortal sin - I even wrote that I guessed it would be venial and due to disobediance. Any good Catholic knows "all wrong doing is sin" (for it is written), and that we should obey and submit to Church leaders (unless they obviously go against the Church's teachings). What I find sad and yet amusing at the same time is those who do not obey/submit to Church leaders actually think something is wrong with my study when I am the one that is showing with the Catechism and common sense in light of what the Cardinals have stated why I believe it to be a sin for an unstuided Catholic to see the movie. My opinions change based on Church teachings... Anything else is phishy and taints the name Catholic when we rebel against the Church leaders. So many erroneous thinking Catholics believe that something must be an "official statement" before we have to obey and submit. I find this to be such a sad situation. What a pity that whoever is in charge doesn't give you good example! But, is it for his personal qualities that you obey him? Or do you conveniently interpret Saint Paul's 'obey your leaders' with a qualification of your own..., 'always provided they have virtues to my taste'? The Way:621 As long as the opinion you expressed was orthodox there is no reason to be upset, even though the malice of whoever heard you caused him to be scandalized. For his scandal is pharisaical. The Way:349 The enemy: Will you obey... even in this 'ridiculous' little detail? You, with God's grace: I will obey... even in this 'heroic' little detail. The Way:618 There is no other possible attitude for a Catholic: we have to defend the authority of the Pope always, and to be ready always to correct our own views with docility, in line with the teaching authority of the Church. The Forge: 581 I would say to many rebel Catholics that they fail in their duty if, instead of accepting the discipline and obedience due to lawful authority, they become a party, a small faction, sowers of discord, conspirators and gossips, promoters of stupid personal squabbles, weavers of a mesh of petty envies and difficulties. Furrow:410 God Bless, ironmonk
Desert Walker Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 (edited) This argument has been put forward on this issue: "Why worry and make a big deal out of it? If you see the movie and read the book and it causes you to question your faith, then your faith wasn't very strong in the first place." Well here's what Fr. John Corapi says about those who spread dissent regarding the Deposit of Faith: [quote]Dissent Poisons "There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being disobedient to the Holy Father. There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being a dissident when it comes to faith and morals. There is no such thing as dissent from authentic and authoritative Church teaching. No such thing. Those who do that separate themselves from Christ and His body. They become dead members of the body of Christ. You should avoid such people like the plague and you should keep your children from such people as though keeping them from the worst contagion, because contact with such people can poison their minds, poison their souls and kill them morally and spiritually, and you don't want to be responsible for that. That is not lack of charity, that is not lack of pastoral concern. That IS charity, that IS being pastoral and that IS being merciful. It is not merciful to turn our children over to those that can poison their hearts and minds. That is not charitable, merciful, nor pastoral. Pray for people that attack the Church, the Holy Father, the Magisterium. Pray for them, love them indeed, but don't listen to them and don't put yourselves nor your children in a position where they or you can be influenced. Let me tell you something. The devil is smarter than you and me. He is a very high angel fallen from grace. Yet God has allow him to retain that very high angelic intelligence. You will not outwit the devil; he's very clever. Through true humility, through grace and through prayer, you win the battle. But don't be presumptuous and think that out of some kind of misguided notion of being 'open', of being 'tolerant,' that you can subject yourself and your children to all forms of philosophical and theological error. Now I'll put this very simply. As some of my rancher friends from Wyoming would put it, if you soak in a tub of manure, you might come out smelling funny. Well, if you soak in error, if you put yourself in an environment of religious error, theological and philosophical error, you're apt to pick some of the smelly contagion of it. Don't do that. That's not smart. [b]There's a story from the annals of the Post Resurrection Church of St. John the Evangelist, the beloved disciple, who went to Ephesus. And the Blessed Mother went with him. And they say that St. John was within the public baths of Ephesus and a heretic came in from the other end of the public baths and word of his presence got to the other side to St. John. Now this is the Apostle that preached Love, right? St. John, the one who said God is Love. In his old age, the only thing St. John could say was 'Love God." That's all he could say. He got word that a heretic had just come in the building, he leaped up, grabbed his clothes and ran out of the building yelling "run for your lives, the heretic 'so-and-so' just came in the house." That was his attitude.[/b] I'll tell you something, I used to contest with these people. I used to debate with them. I used to engage in apologetics with them. I don't do it anymore and I'm going to tell you something. For the most part, I am more qualified to do it than you are, than most of you. I've got a doctorate, I've got five degrees in Theology and Philosophy. I know the material, but I don't do it because it is an exercise in futility and I don't want to drive myself 'nuts,' in plain English, and it doesn't work. Now, if I have to defend the faith, I'll do that, but I do not engage in debates with people, especially with people who have lost the faith. There's an axiom in metaphysics, 'Things are received in the mode of the receiver.' I say this over and over again. You get what you're ready to get, you receive what you're ready to receive." Fr. John Corapi, SOLT -- excerpt from recent audio tape entitled "Messages for Homeschoolers." [/quote] [b]!!!"run for your lives, the heretic 'so-and-so' just came in the house."!!! [/b] Edited May 17, 2006 by Desert Walker
ironmonk Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 Fr. Corapi is just so cool. He has such a powerful voice and a great conversion story.
MC IMaGiNaZUN Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 those at Cannes film festival laughed at the climax. If the atheists, secularists, and agnostics at the film festival don't believe it, will the ignorant christians? SHALOM
Desert Walker Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='MC IMaGiNaZUN' post='983668' date='May 17 2006, 09:19 AM'] those at Cannes film festival laughed at the climax. If the atheists, secularists, and agnostics at the film festival don't believe it, will the ignorant christians? SHALOM [/quote] Actually they weren't laughing at the heretical content. They were laughing at the poor manner in which the film was directed. Perhaps Ronnie Howard intended sabatoge?
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