musturde Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 I talked to a girl whose father is a Lutheran pastor (she converted to Catholicism at age 15, i believe). She said that most Lutherans don't even read what Luther himself wrote. If they did, they wouldn't be Lutheran. Luther was crazy and anti-semetic. Go to any Holocaust museum, you'll find him referenced somewhere. However, heresy, by definition, "Any opinions or doctrines at variance with the official or orthodox position", this is often related to the Catholic Church. If they say he was a heretic to the Catholic Church's standards (he was actually an augustinian hermit). If he was part of the Church, people can say he was a heretical Catholic. There is nothing wrong with that.
ChrisZewe Posted May 17, 2006 Author Posted May 17, 2006 Please don't get me started on [i]Catholic[/i] intolerance.
KnightofChrist Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='983138' date='May 16 2006, 07:17 PM'] No, because it's in response to the use of the word "spewed." [/quote] Yes, it was one can not return sin for sin... "[color="#CC0000"]You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on (your) right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.[/color]" If you believe that EWTN sinned or was wrong in saying the word "spewed" than so did you by responseding with the word "disgusting" that is the same kind of sin or incorrectness.
ChrisZewe Posted May 17, 2006 Author Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='983187' date='May 16 2006, 09:35 PM'] Yes, it was one can not return sin for sin... "[color="#CC0000"]You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on (your) right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.[/color]" If you believe that EWTN sinned or was wrong in saying the word "spewed" than so did you by responseding with the word "disgusting" that is the same kind of sin or incorrectness. [/quote] Ah, but this is an objective thing here. EWTN is disgusting because they slander other religions. And we're not attacking my character here - I'm just observing that EWTN is disgusting. But on that note, how about all this Dan Brown hating, eh?
KnightofChrist Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='983214' date='May 16 2006, 07:47 PM'] Ah, but this is an objective thing here. EWTN is disgusting because they slander other religions. And we're not attacking my character here - I'm just observing that EWTN is disgusting. But on that note, how about all this Dan Brown hating, eh? [/quote] If anyone has attacked your character it has been yourself by making a hypocrital statement. There is no "Dan Brown hating" here, protest of his hate filled anti-catholic book perhaps but there is no hate, our protest of The Da Vinci Code is not hate, simpley protest and defense. And nothing more that I have seen...
kamiller42 Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 ChrisZewe, Was is the host of Journey Home who said it or the guest? I have seen guests who have converted from their prior faith and say some less than flattering words. The host usually lets the guest have the floor and simply gives direction to the conversation. EWTN could edit out dialogue, but I think it's the open and honest conversation the show allows which encourages converts to not be afraid to tell their story,
zwergel88 Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 I would say that by definition what they said about them was true of course, but the word choice was such that it could be construed as rude and a hindrance to dialogue. I think they could have put that in a nicer way.
musturde Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='983156' date='May 16 2006, 08:23 PM'] Please don't get me started on [i]Catholic[/i] intolerance. [/quote] Don't get me started on Ignorant agnostics. Catholics can call people heretics rightfully as long as the people are Catholic... I mean Martin Luther was an Anti-Semite and attempted to take out some books of the New Testament (such as James) that dissagreed with his theology. This makes sense to call him heretical. There's really no point in your argument. EWTN would not bash the religion, they'd talk exclusively about Luther. Most Lutherans don't even read the writings of Luther.
jezic Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 i believe slandering is telling lies. If they did what you claim they didn't lie at all.
ChrisZewe Posted May 17, 2006 Author Posted May 17, 2006 Okay...you are all missing my point. I don't really care about the heresies bit. It was the dismal verb choice that got me, and I'm not getting how you don't see that. And it was [i]Journeys of [b]Faith[/b][/i] not [i]Journey Home[/i]...
musturde Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='983946' date='May 17 2006, 05:58 PM'] Okay...you are all missing my point. I don't really care about the heresies bit. It was the dismal verb choice that got me, and I'm not getting how you don't see that. And it was [i]Journeys of [b]Faith[/b][/i] not [i]Journey Home[/i]... [/quote] HAHA ooooh, enphasis on the spewed... hmm. I guess they wanted zing? lol It kinda does sound off though, i agree. EWTN is usually not a bashing network. I dont believe the show your mentioning would actually bash Lutherans but nonetheless, interesting title.
Fulton Sheen Warrior Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 +JMJ+ Oxford Dictionary: [b]Spew: expel, rapidly and forcibly[/b] Catechism of the Catholic Church: [b]2089: Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be beleived with divine and catholic faith[/b] Do the Lutherans not expel their beliefs? Do they not enforce them as truth? Do they not deny Church teaching (eg. The real presence, papal authority, etc.) So...Spewing heresy is kinda accurate, from a Catholic point of view.
kamiller42 Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='983946' date='May 17 2006, 05:58 PM'] And it was [i]Journeys of [b]Faith[/b][/i] not [i]Journey Home[/i]... [/quote] Oh. My bad. I watch EWTN, but haven't watched that show. I can't help you. Do you find this type of dialog standard in EWTN shows? If so, what are they?
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='983004' date='May 16 2006, 08:28 PM'] I'm just baffled as to how they can get away with attacking such a large religious group on cable television on a show like "Journeys of Faith." [/quote] Just a sidenote, but I think modern Lutheranism is quite different from its founder.
lsoliman Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 [font="Times New Roman"][size=3]Bottomline: The Catholic Church is absolute TRUTH. The Protestants have a portion of TRUTH. Now are we going to defend the Bride of Christ 100% or have reservations? Sometimes, I believe, we, as children of Holy Mother Church, must use harsh words to get all the children of the world to wake up. The age of "celebrating our diversity" and "finding unity in our common beliefs" has done nothing to bring about Christian Unity. Now, EWTN, with its "in your face" catholicism has brought about many conversions within and without the Church. It's intent is not to offend, but to "tough love" the truth, as a parent does to a child. [/size] [/font]
Theoketos Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 I actually agree with Chris. I love EWTN because about 99% of their programing is stellar, but do not claim it to be perfect. It was a most likely mistake to say "spew," at least for the sake of Christian Charity and dialogue, even if it might be accurate. That being said, I can understand being frustrated with the writtings of Luther, for the reasons pointed out above. I have read quite a bit of Luther, and [s]some[/s] most of the time he is less kind about the Catholic Church itself. Also Chris, you have to understand someone dogging on EWTN, is not automatically going to be heard. However you stated your case really well. Edit to add (with fast reply)... I think that the Journies of Faith are done by Bob and Penny Lord. They are great people and former Lutherens if I remember correctly (For sure they were protestants at one time) who sure do not mince words at all. I know them personally. I think that you should write them a letter. I spent a week with them when I was a wee lad. They are actually really loving people, hardcore Catholic, but really loving. [url="http://www.bobandpennylord.com/"]http://www.bobandpennylord.com/[/url] info@bobandpennylord.com They would love to hear from you!
ironmonk Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='982513' date='May 16 2006, 12:41 PM'] Even though I disagree with Lutherans, how does a cable TV station get off calling his teachings "spewed heresies"? [/quote] Because Lutheran teachings are heresies. Here is a old rebuttal to Luther's 95 Thesis. [url="http://www.maxbrackett.com/95thesis.php"]http://www.maxbrackett.com/95thesis.php[/url] God Bless, ironmonk
Desert Walker Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 The reason the word "spewed" was used to describe the way in which Lutheran theology was born is that Martin Luther's personality traits were, as many an historian can tell you, unbalanced. The word "unbalanced" is actually too nice to him. The guy actually wrote about engaging in excrement-throwing matches with the Devil.
ChrisZewe Posted May 18, 2006 Author Posted May 18, 2006 ...I'm so tired of restating this. This is the last time I will do so, so read up, tools. [b]I WAS NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT THE "HERESIES" BIT. THE WORD I WAS OBJECTING TO WAS THE USE OF THE WORD "SPEWED." TAKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FOLLOWING SENTENCE: [i]THE POPE SPEWED SOME NONSENSE ABOUT JESUS.[/i] THE WORD "SPEWED" OFFENDS YOU. THE WORD NONSENSE DOES TOO, BUT TO SOME, THE POPE'S WORDS MAY INDEED BE NONSENSE, BUT THAT IS NOT THE POINT HERE. "SPEWED" WAS UNCALLED FOR.[/b] Clear enough now?
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