Islam & Allah O.K. in public schools,

[Lil Red]

[url="http://thedragonandphoenix.blogspot.com/"]From the Dragon & the Phoenix blog[/url]

Anyone who reads a newspaper, watches television, or has a child in the public school system is well aware of the war waged on Christianity by atheists via the ACLU: mention of God is verbotten. The Christian God, that is. For, behold, [url="http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=20&artnum=3&issue=20060519"]teaching kids to worship Allah is acceptable[/url]:

[i]In our brave new schools, Johnny can't say the pledge, but he can recite the Quran. Yup, the same court that found the phrase "under God" unconstitutional now endorses Islamic catechism in public school.

In a recent federal decision that got surprisingly little press, even from conservative talk radio, California's 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled it's OK to put public-school kids through Muslim role-playing exercises, including:

Reciting aloud Muslim prayers that begin with "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful . . . ."

Memorizing the Muslim profession of faith: "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger."

Chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.

Professing as "true" the Muslim belief that "The Holy Quran is God's word."

Giving up candy and TV to demonstrate Ramadan, the Muslim holy month of fasting.

Designing prayer rugs, taking an Arabic name and essentially "becoming a Muslim" for two full weeks.

Parents of seventh-graders, who after 9-11 were taught the pro-Islamic lessons as part of California's world history curriculum, sued under the First Amendment ban on religious establishment. They argued, reasonably, that the government was promoting Islam.

[b]But a federal judge appointed by President Clinton told them in so many words to get over it, that the state was merely teaching kids about another "culture."[/b]
. . . .
The decision is a major victory for the multiculturalists and Islamic apologists in California and across the country who've never met a culture or religion they didn't like — with the exception of Western civilization and Christianity. They are legally in the clear to indoctrinate kids into the "peaceful" and "tolerant" religion of Islam, while continuing to denigrate Judeo-Christian values.

In the California course on world religions, Christianity is not presented equally. It's covered in just two days and doesn't involve kids in any role-playing activities. But kids do get a good dose of skepticism about the Christian faith, including a biting history of its persecution of other peoples. In contrast, Islam gets a pass from critical review. Even jihad is presented as an "internal personal struggle to do one's best to resist temptation," and not holy war.[/i]

Do you know what your children are being taught in school?

[musturde]

Allah = God. Whoever wrote this article needs to educate himself on Islam. True Muslims embrace Christians and Jews and, yes, are peaceful. Honestly, I would pray with a Muslim. Most of their prayers consist of "God Increase", "Praise God", and "There is only one God". However, I believe the California school system should adopt something with Christian Culture, especially Eastern Orthodox or Catholic culture (since it is soo rich).

[kujo]

So, the liberal media picks and chooses it's battles once again. The ACLU (The Anti-Christian Liberties Union, as I call it) smells of elderberries!

I suggest that we all just ignore these people who tell us that "Jesus" isn't cool, but "Mohammad" is.

[Lounge Daddy]

the ACLU more than simply anti-Christian

they have always been about undermining what our country has been - and the best way to do that is to seek social and religious upheaval

in fact the founder of the ACLU was quoted as stating "Communism, that is the goal"

the stories of kids bringing prayer rugs to public schools in California and New York have been ...unsettling to me

[img]http://images.cafepress.com/product/45380261v3_240x240_F.jpg[/img]

[Akalyte]

the whole "muslims are peaceful" thing is a lie and a trap. Another "liberal thing". obviously people havent done the history on what they've done to christians since their founding. call me a hater i really dont care' terrorism and the bad things many of them are doing today are just typical. All you have to do is read history.

[Mateo el Feo]

Thank you for sharing, Lil Red. Very sad story.

[quote name='musturde' post='989749' date='May 24 2006, 03:20 PM']
Allah = God. Whoever wrote this article needs to educate himself on Islam. True Muslims embrace Christians and Jews and, yes, are peaceful.[/quote]
My own view: In the English language, "Allah" refers to the God of Islam. Muslims confirm this distinction when they shy away from using the term "God" to describe their deity when speaking in English.

A recent article by Cardinal Pell of Australia includes the following:([url="http://www.sydney.catholic.org.au/Archbishop/Addresses/200627_681.shtml"]link[/url]):
[quote name='Cardinal Pell']The Christian and Jewish sources underlying much of the Koran are an important basis for dialogue and mutual understanding, although there are difficulties. Perhaps foremost among them is the understanding of God. It is true that Christianity, Judaism and Islam claim Abraham as their Father and the God of Abraham as their God. [b]I accept with reservations the claim that Jews, Christians and Muslims worship one god (Allah is simply the Arabic word for god) and there is only one true God available to be worshipped![/b] That they worship the same god has been disputed, not only by Catholics stressing the triune nature of God, but also by some evangelical Christians and by some Muslims. It is difficult to recognise the God of the New Testament in the God of the Koran, and two very different concepts of the human person have emerged from the Christian and Muslim understandings of God.[/quote]
Muslims are doing everything they can to convert people to their religion. While Christians are being imprisoned and even killed for sharing their faith in Muslim countries, we don't need a politically correct government pushing Islam on our children.

As an aside: I recently realized the fruits of this kind of school program when I read on a Muslim website about a Lebanese man's conversion story. He initially got the idea to convert from Christianity to Islam after his religion teacher (I believe the teacher was a priest) instructed the class to pick and recite a surah/chapter from the Quran as a way to better understand the "religion of peace." It's sad that Catholic education is no guarantee of good catechesis to children; and on top of that, it prematurely exposes these same children to other religions that could snatch them away.

[jezic]

i don't really question the idea of bringing prayer rugs to school though. That seems like it is respect for their faith in charity. Forcing other people who are not Muslim to do it would be wrong though.

[misereremi]

This is why I send my children to an excellent Catholic school. I think that sort of role-playing will really confuse children. There is a push in secular countries towards religious relativism and I think it is dangerous. Political correctness is used as an excuse. The government is trying to infiltrate our Catholic schools, questioning our admissions policies and teaching etc. Muslims support us in wanting to preserve our faith schools. Many Muslims in my town want their children to go to Catholic schools because of our common values- today there were Muslim kids sitting in at Ascension mass, they also listen when the priests come in to teach them RE. They recently went to look at some ancient icons and how they are made. (We have some fantastic teachers. I have never heard the way of the cross more beautifully explained.) But their Muslim parents are confident that they have raised their children not to compromise their faith. I want to have that confidence.

I think children should not be ignorant of other peoples' faiths and have closed minds (i.e. Islam is all about war on Christians because the bad Muslims have killed and oppressed people throughout history and are still killing people). However, they should be educated in their own religions first. Catholic parents and educators have a huge responsibility to ensure that their children are firmly rooted in their faith. This is part of the reason why I come on phatmass...there is a lot to learn and a lot of practical advice. When my kids go out in the world, I want them to be able defend their faith diligently. I'm all for speaking up more in public, any chance I get, showing that Catholicism exists and should be respected.

We need a lot of prayers for Catholic parents and educators, and for our faith schools which are alwys under attack.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='989573' date='May 24 2006, 12:56 PM']Do you know what your children are being taught in school?
[/quote]

Yes.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='990240' date='May 25 2006, 08:32 AM']
Yes.
[/quote]
rotfl

[Lil Red]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='990240' date='May 25 2006, 07:32 AM']
Yes.
[/quote]
you're funny!

i know this will come as a big surprise to you all but the ACLU is in the book i'm reading right now ([u]The New Anti-Catholicism[/u]):

[quote]Blanshard's anti-Church views were reflected in the political activism of two major liberal secularist organizations, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and Protestants and Other Americans United for Separation of Church and State (POAU), founded in 1947. Through the 1950s, both served as components of his 'resistance movement,' conducting a brushfire war against the Catholic Church and Catholic politicians over issues such as censorship and state funding of sectarian education. [/quote]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Blanshard"]from wikipedia:[/url]
[quote]Paul Beecher Blanshard (often misspelled "Blanchard") (1892-1980) was an American journalist of the mid-20th century, specializing in political topics. He was also an ordained Congregational minister and, before 1933, a Socialist activist. His fraternal twin Brand Blanshard was an eminent academic philosopher.

He edited the left-wing weekly [i]The Nation[/i] and his most famous writing was a series of articles attacking the Roman Catholic Church in America as a dangerous, powerful and undemocratic institution. He wrote:

[i]"There is no doubt that the American Catholic hierarchy has entered the political arena, and that it is becoming more and more aggressive in extending the frontiers of Catholic authority into the fields of medicine, education and foreign policy. As we shall see in this book, the Catholic hierarchy in this country has great power as a pressure group, and no editor, politician, publisher, merchant or motion-picture producer can express defiance openly - or publicize documented facts - without risking his future."[/i] (p.4)

The book version circulated widely, selling 300,000 copies. It had political repercussions, as federal aid to Catholic schools for auxiliary services (like busing) was defeated in Congress in 1949, and Eleanor Roosevelt publicly fought Cardinal Spellman on the matter. His next book [u]Communism, Democracy, and Catholic Power[/u] (1951) outlined the "fundamental resemblance between the Vatican and the Kremlin" in a further effort to show Catholicism was incompatible with American ideals. He became an atheist, saying in 1972 that "Christianity is so full of fraud that any honest man should repudiate the whole shebang and espouse atheism." (New York Times obituary, 1-30-1980)[/quote]

[musturde]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='990166' date='May 25 2006, 03:35 AM']
the whole "muslims are peaceful" thing is a lie and a trap. Another "liberal thing". obviously people havent done the history on what they've done to christians since their founding. call me a hater i really dont care' terrorism and the bad things many of them are doing today are just typical. All you have to do is read history.
[/quote]

Your an awesome beat engineer/lyricist/Catholic Militant. However, I dissagree with your views on Islam (although i respect them). Terrorists do not follow the Koran and mostly use it as a means to persuade people to follow their political goals. Real Muslims (unless fanatical idiots) do not follow in terrorist attacks. The Koran, for example, does not support killing ANY innocent life (terrorism = killing). Also, a Jihad is mostly issued if the State is under attack or Muslims are being oppressed for their religion. This is a true Jihad. The many people who were executed and kidnapped were not killed by true Muslims. The Koran talks against the killing of hostages and encourages treating them well in order to convert them.

[musturde]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='990175' date='May 25 2006, 04:23 AM']
Thank you for sharing, Lil Red. Very sad story.
My own view: In the English language, "Allah" refers to the God of Islam. Muslims confirm this distinction when they shy away from using the term "God" to describe their deity when speaking in English.
[/quote]
The Christians in the Middle East use "Allah" in daily language and while praying. Allah is a translation of God into Arabic. The reason why they use in in different nations and languages (Instead of saying "God", saying "Allah") because that is how they believe God revealed himself to Muhamad. His name in arabic, which is a sacred language to the Muslims for God revealed through the arabic language. That is why whenever the Koran is translated, "Allah" can not be changed. That is the only word they will not allow to translate.

[quote]
A recent article by Cardinal Pell of Australia includes the following:([url="http://www.sydney.catholic.org.au/Archbishop/Addresses/200627_681.shtml"]link[/url]):
[/quote]
It seems a Cardinal has read the Koran. While this Archbishop and Cardinal has a somewhat closed view on Islam, the Patriarch (who is also a Cardinal) of the Maronite Church(in Lebanon) is very open with Muslims. This is just an opinion article. Australia has many closed minded Muslims who are mostly teen gang rebels (not real Muslims).

[quote]
Muslims are doing everything they can to convert people to their religion. While Christians are being imprisoned and even killed for sharing their faith in Muslim countries, we don't need a politically correct government pushing Islam on our children.
[/quote]
Honestly, if they're doing it for fun, I don't see much of a problem with it. The problem I see is the people aren't doing this with Christianity as much.

[quote]As an aside: I recently realized the fruits of this kind of school program when I read on a Muslim website about a Lebanese man's conversion story. He initially got the idea to convert from Christianity to Islam after his religion teacher (I believe the teacher was a priest) instructed the class to pick and recite a surah/chapter from the Quran as a way to better understand the "religion of peace." It's sad that Catholic education is no guarantee of good catechesis to children; and on top of that, it prematurely exposes these same children to other religions that could snatch them away.
[/quote]

That is true, however, just because one man doesn't learn about his own religion well enough and falls to another one, doesn't mean that everyone will be like that. These kids are too young to want to convert in the first place.

[kujo]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='990166' date='May 25 2006, 04:35 AM']
the whole "muslims are peaceful" thing is a lie and a trap. Another "liberal thing". obviously people havent done the history on what they've done to christians since their founding. call me a hater i really dont care' terrorism and the bad things many of them are doing today are just typical. All you have to do is read history.
[/quote]


I respect your viewpoint, and agree with the notion of the "liberal media" being predominantly apologetic towards Muslims; however, to say that Muslims have Christian blood on their hands without acknowledging that we Catholics have the blood of Muslims, Jews, and various other "pagans" on our hands as well, is to be historically-remiss (Remember the Crusades? Remember the Inquisition?). You will not find a more fierce-defender of our Mother Church than I; however, as you said, it is important that we read history.

Furthermore, as Musturde said, true Muslims do not carry out these terrorist attacks. Rather, "fundamentalists" are saying that the "infidels" (the U.S., Israel, and even some of their own countrymen) must be purged from the face of this earth. And, instead of isolating these whack-jobs and aligning ourselves with the average Muslim, we, the "infidels," continue to alienate ALL Muslims, thus allowing the "extremists" to continue spreading their message of hate.

Sorry for the diatribe...I'm a poli-sci major.

Edited May 26, 2006 by kujo

[musturde]

[quote]Honestly, if they're doing it for fun, I don't see much of a problem with it. The problem I see is the people aren't doing this with Christianity as much.[/quote]

Sorry, What I meant by that is if the students of the School System act like Muslims for fun, I have no problem with it. After re-reading my post it didn't seem clear enough.

[allis-challmers]

[quote]In the California course on world religions, Christianity is not presented equally. It's covered in just two days and doesn't involve kids in any role-playing activities. But kids do get a good dose of skepticism about the Christian faith, including a biting history of its persecution of other peoples. In contrast, Islam gets a pass from critical review. Even jihad is presented as an "internal personal struggle to do one's best to resist temptation," and not holy war.

Do you know what your children are being taught in school[/quote]




Personaly I am glad that Christianity is not taught in public schools. I would rather teach my own kids (when I have them) myself. I know that the little I remember being taught about Cathlics was the crusades. The history books have nothing good to say about Cathlics and most teachers have no knowlage of what a true Cathlic is.

[MichaelFilo]

When will Satan get some fair representation. This pisses me off.

But seriously, if you don't think Christianity is allowed/taught in schools, then I fear you are sorely mistaken. Even in my liberal/intellectual elitist school, our study of English literature inevitably returns us to Christianity. Our math teacher has a cross and rosary up bigger than most people's arms. We are just entrenched in Christianity to such a point that it misses us.

Although, I must admit, the muslim thing is a bit far. Although, I'm willing to bet it hasn't extended to too many schools, as I've yet to hear of it. I think if a teacher decided to do the same with Christianity, and is rejected, then we are hit with a real problem..

[Akalyte]

[quote name='kujo' post='990804' date='May 26 2006, 01:42 AM']
I respect your viewpoint, and agree with the notion of the "liberal media" being predominantly apologetic towards Muslims; however, to say that Muslims have Christian blood on their hands without acknowledging that we Catholics have the blood of Muslims, Jews, and various other "pagans" on our hands as well, is to be historically-remiss (Remember the Crusades? Remember the Inquisition?). You will not find a more fierce-defender of our Mother Church than I; however, as you said, it is important that we read history.

Furthermore, as Musturde said, true Muslims do not carry out these terrorist attacks. Rather, "fundamentalists" are saying that the "infidels" (the U.S., Israel, and even some of their own countrymen) must be purged from the face of this earth. And, instead of isolating these whack-jobs and aligning ourselves with the average Muslim, we, the "infidels," continue to alienate ALL Muslims, thus allowing the "extremists" to continue spreading their message of hate.

Sorry for the diatribe...I'm a poli-sci major.
[/quote]


The crusades and inquisitions were mostly myths, when will catholics stop believing in protestant lies?

again, history shows what muslims have done since their founding.

personally, I wish catholics would stop defending other religions and start defending and protecting their own.

yeah the bible has cruelty and violence in it too. But muslims have done far worse/


Dont even tell me im taking "kill disbelievers wherever you find them" out of context..


37. Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74

22. Disbelievers will be cursed by Allah, angels, and men. They will have a painful doom. 3:87-88

12. Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2



[url="http://answeringislam.org/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html"]http://answeringislam.org/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html[/url]

[Era Might]

I have to agree with musturde. Muslims are fast becoming the new Jews, the object of fear and scapegoating by Christians. The Church is committed to peace and dialogue with Muslims, and she does not believe they are incapable of reciprocating. We as Christians have our own history of terrorism (against Jews, particularly, but also, for example, the KKK). We would not like to be defined by the excess of other Christians, and we should return the same courtesy to truly religious Muslims.

[quote]Beneath an appearance of piety, the flagellants set their hands to cruel and various works, shedding the blood of Jews, whom Christian piety accepts and sustains.

--Pope Clement VI[/quote]

This is Muslim terrorism in a nutshell. It is carried out "beneath an appearance of piety", but it is no more about true piety than were the Christian flagellants and their terrorism against Jews.

[quote]Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common, as believers and as human beings. We live in the same world, marked by many signs of hope, but also by multiple signs of anguish. For us, Abraham is a very model of faith in God, of submission to his will and of confidence in his goodness. We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection.

...

Dialogue between Christians and Muslims is today more necessary than ever. It flows from our fidelity to God and supposes that we know how to recognize God by faith, and to witness to him by word and deed in a world ever more secularized and at times even atheistic.

The young can build a better future if they first put their faith in God and if they pledge themselves to build this new world in accordance with God's plan, with wisdom and trust.

Today we should witness to the spiritual values of which the world has need. The first is our faith in God.

--Pope John Paul II[/quote]

Oh, and about the word "Allah", I do find it interesting that when the media translates terrorist messages, they never translate "Allah" as "God". They always leave it as "Allah". It reinforces that these are Arabs, and that these are Muslims, in the popular eye, and I think it reinforces prejudice. Christian arabs also worship "Allah".

[Akalyte]

ah it aint fun being admonished and corrected constantly by fellow catholics here.