the one and only

[Socrates]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='992481' date='May 29 2006, 04:56 PM']
you know i agreed with everyone else up until this point.
but sorry if it makes you mad.
but youre wrong.
sorry.
you also know socrates. you gonna start alot of wars in the future whether it be here or out in the world saying stuff like that too. show some respect for other christians who love God. WE are the church. dont burn mine down.

Christ founded only one Church, not a bunch of different churches.

well sounds like christianity never grew then. i know when i grow up and im a big boy ill know that say 4 or 5 is more than 1. in any universe!

quote..He didn't need to say "Catholic" because it was the only Church that He founded

that is ridiculous and its hipocracy. youre just saying 'its not in the bible because...'
how bout saying whats IN the bible???
it never said anything about a rosary or nuns or pets not having souls or us not being angels when we die. but i respect what you believe alot more than you think. but dont sit there and say Jesus only founded the Catholic church. because of the word universal.

universal is the same as interdenominational anyway.
[/quote]
The truth is one.
Different denominations teach different things.
Christ wanted His Church to be One and follow His truth in all things.

And look up the history of any protestant denomination. They were all founded some time after 1517. ONly the Catholic Church goes all the way back to St. Peter and Jesus Christ.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='992481' date='May 29 2006, 05:56 PM']


that is ridiculous and its hipocracy. youre just saying 'its not in the bible because...'
how bout saying whats IN the bible???
it never said anything about a rosary or nuns or pets not having souls or us not being angels when we die. but i respect what you believe alot more than you think. but dont sit there and say Jesus only founded the Catholic church. because of the word universal.

universal is the same as interdenominational anyway.
[/quote]

OK, try this one:

"There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5). ONE faith, not 30,000+. And yes, the various denominations are different FAITHS, because they have denied at least one of the essential truths, so no, universal is not the same as interdenominational.

Either the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ or it isn't.

Either baptism washes away original sin or it doesn't.

Either Jesus is true God and true man or He isn't.

Either Christ delegated authority to forgive/absolve sins or he didn't.

Either divorce from a legitimate marriage and subsequent remarriage (except for Pauline privilege cases) is adultery or it isn't.

I could go on and on.

Who else besides the Catholic Church gets it right on all counts?

And where else do we find the unbroken apostolic succession in bishops?

[journeyman]

For What It's Worth:

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detailed_Christian_timeline#Renaissance_and_Reformation"]Wiki Timeline of Christianity[/url]

Of interest - since it asserts the opposite of Catholic understanding of most time lines
[url="http://www.speroforum.com/wiki/default.aspx/SperoWiki/BaptistChristianComparison.html"]From a Baptist Perspective[/url]

[rckllnknny]

so what about the year christ was born. Jesuss faith to worship God. the moment of his birth. what about before jesus was born when he was still with God in heaven. before Catholism was ever created before abraham HE WAS. and then he 'accidentally' forgot to mention catholicism?? i think worshiping God is Christianity. The religion. where few are gathered in His name, there he is. We are the church. i not saying Catholicism is wrong. im saying that saying by only Catholicism is wrong. Its obvious and sad thing is you know it. dont lie to yourself and dont be scared im trying to get you to lose your faith. im just saying open your heart to everything. im not trying to convert you. ACTUALLY i pray you stand firmer in your faith your beliefs your religion and in catholicism, but dont condemn me. am i wrong for saying you are wrong..i think so. but am i telling you the truth? I know i am because i believe it in my heart. Thats all.

as any christian i pray that all people all nations all tongues all denominations and all churches come together out of love. For God. that is the most important. its God vision.

Catholic or not. period. forever.

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='992467' date='May 29 2006, 05:21 PM']
quote..why are you so hung up these problems usually posed by middle schoolers. If the Catholic Church was called the Bible Church would you be down with it then?
..yeah, probably..
quote..ask yourself if your really seeking the truth or just looking to stay comfortable

GOOD EYE!!
used to be catholic though i dont resent or judge no one.
just trying to open doors of perception..including that of my own.
i just want us ALL to be grounded in the commond bonds of love...

..i dont knnow if that makes any sense..but it does to me. 0o

btw what is sola scriptura??
[/quote]
sola scriptura means bible alone



[quote name='rckllnknny' post='992481' date='May 29 2006, 05:56 PM']
you know i agreed with everyone else up until this point.
but sorry if it makes you mad.
but youre wrong.
sorry.
you also know socrates. you gonna start alot of wars in the future whether it be here or out in the world saying stuff like that too. show some respect for other christians who love God. WE are the church. dont burn mine down.

Christ founded only one Church, not a bunch of different churches.

well sounds like christianity never grew then. i know when i grow up and im a big boy ill know that say 4 or 5 is more than 1. in any universe!

quote..He didn't need to say "Catholic" because it was the only Church that He founded

that is ridiculous and its hipocracy. youre just saying 'its not in the bible because...'
how bout saying whats IN the bible???
it never said anything about a rosary or nuns or pets not having souls or us not being angels when we die. but i respect what you believe alot more than you think. but dont sit there and say Jesus only founded the Catholic church. because of the word universal.

universal is the same as interdenominational anyway.
[/quote]


taht's why sola scriptura is wrong.



[quote name='rckllnknny' post='992545' date='May 29 2006, 08:15 PM']
so what about the year christ was born. Jesuss faith to worship God. the moment of his birth. what about before jesus was born when he was still with God in heaven. before Catholism was ever created before abraham HE WAS. and then he 'accidentally' forgot to mention catholicism?? i think worshiping God is Christianity. The religion. where few are gathered in His name, there he is. We are the church. i not saying Catholicism is wrong. im saying that saying by only Catholicism is wrong. Its obvious and sad thing is you know it. dont lie to yourself and dont be scared im trying to get you to lose your faith. im just saying open your heart to everything. im not trying to convert you. ACTUALLY i pray you stand firmer in your faith your beliefs your religion and in catholicism, but dont condemn me. am i wrong for saying you are wrong..i think so. but am i telling you the truth? I know i am because i believe it in my heart. Thats all.

as any christian i pray that all people all nations all tongues all denominations and all churches come together out of love. For God. that is the most important. its God vision.

Catholic or not. period. forever.
[/quote]
See Catholicism does not teach that IT IS THE ONE TRUE CHURCH. we as Catholics believe it to be THE ONE TRUE CHURCH.

Catholicism does not say that we are the only ones who are right and everybody else is wrong.

The Church does say this... It is the FULLNESS OF TRUTH. as oppose to partial truth that you get from protestant denominations.

check out my signiture

[djc08]

I just read this Of interest - since it asserts the opposite of Catholic understanding of most time lines
From a Baptist Perspective and I about fell our of my seat because it is so silly...well the Catholic compared to the baptist one.

[ReinnieR]

facts are silly?

[Franimus]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='992275' date='May 29 2006, 08:35 AM']
was "catholicism" ever mentioned in any scripture of the Holy Bible??

and if not...why do you think that was???


[/quote]
That title, no. I think it wasn't mentioned because then EVERY denomination would call themselves THE catholic church and we'd have too much confusion. God spared us this confusion by "allowing" non-Catholic churches to explicitly identify themselves as non-Catholic. On a side note, a catholic (universal) church is specifically cited in the Nicean Creed, at a time when there was only one catholic Church. For hundreds of years, the Church did not need to specify "catholic" because there were no other christian churches.

[quote]it never said anything about a rosary or nuns or pets not having souls or us not being angels when we die.[/quote]
The Bible doesn't say very much about Mary. It is through her validated apparitions that we come to know the Rosary, which is merely a set of prayers. What can be wrong with praying certain prayers in a set manner? Don't we do this with other prayers, such as grace before meals?
1 Thessalonians 4:10-12 seems to support the idea of cloistered priests/nuns: "Indeed, you do this for all the brothers throughout Macedonia. Nevertheless we urge you, brothers, to progress even more, and to aspire to live a tranquil life, to mind your own affairs, and to work with your [own] hands, as we instructed you, that you may conduct yourselves properly toward outsiders and not depend on anyone."
Pets having souls is quite a logically rediculous concept, pardon my frankness. I challenge you to find anything in the Bible to support this. In the meantime, the following would refute it: Genesis 1:26-27 "Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea... God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them." Genesis 2:7 "the Lord God formed man out of the clay of the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and so man became a living being." These references to live really seem to be above and beyond the creation of animals. That "breath of life" is not life as the animals and plants know it, but life as we know it: with a soul.
Just as the Bible says nothing to support the idea of pets having souls (and being there with you in Heaven when you both die), the Bible says nothing to support the idea of us becoming angels: Hebrews 1:13-14 "But to which of the angels has he ever said: 'Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool'? Are they not all ministering spirits sent to serve, for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?" Luke 20:36 "They can no longer die, for they are [u]like[/u] angels; and they are the children of God because they are the ones who will rise."

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='992545' date='May 29 2006, 09:15 PM']
so what about the year christ was born. Jesuss faith to worship God. the moment of his birth. what about before jesus was born when he was still with God in heaven. before Catholism was ever created before abraham HE WAS. and then he 'accidentally' forgot to mention catholicism?? i think worshiping God is Christianity. The religion. where few are gathered in His name, there he is. We are the church. i not saying Catholicism is wrong. im saying that saying by only Catholicism is wrong. Its obvious and sad thing is you know it. dont lie to yourself and dont be scared im trying to get you to lose your faith. im just saying open your heart to everything. im not trying to convert you. ACTUALLY i pray you stand firmer in your faith your beliefs your religion and in catholicism, but dont condemn me. am i wrong for saying you are wrong..i think so. but am i telling you the truth? I know i am because i believe it in my heart. Thats all.

as any christian i pray that all people all nations all tongues all denominations and all churches come together out of love. For God. that is the most important. its God vision.

Catholic or not. period. forever.
[/quote]
Jesus only founded [b]ONE[/b] Church that spread out from Jerusalem. The greek word for church is eklesia, the word for universal is katholicos. Put them together you have catholic church. The Catholic Church was founded when Jesus sent the Holy Spirit down on Pentecost, its the Churchs birthday. But in 33AD on Pentecost, there was no bible as we know it: Mark, Matthew, Luke and John didn't start writing for several years. So the catholic church existed before the new testament did. The writers of scripture didn't have to use the word universal in their letters to each other, there was no other church in existance. As gospels and letters were written they circulated among the churches, and the church as a whole decided which ones it would keep and which ones it would reject. The current so called "lost gospels" you read about in the news [Thomas, Judas] were not lost at all they were rejected by the church as not being inspired by God. The gospels and letter selected BY THE CHURCH, are the ones that are in the bible. So the Catholic Church decided which letters and gospels were inspired by God. So the Catholic Church is far OLDER than the bible and are the ones who put it together.

So we are not wrong in saying we are the church founded by Jesus, that is historical fact. And remember in Timothy is says the church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

A denomination is a group that has broken off the original. So protestants are a denomiation that has left the Catholic Church.
her is the timetable:
If you are a member of the Jewish faith, your religion was founded by Abraham about 4,000 years ago.
If you are a Hindu, your religion was developed in India around 1,500 B.C.

If you are a Buddhist, your religion split from Hinduism, and was founded by Buddha, Prince Siddhartha Gautama of India, about 500 B.C.

[b]If you are Catholic, Jesus Christ began your religion in the year 33. [/b]

If you are Islamic, Mohammed started your religion in what is now Saudi Arabia around 600 A.D.

If you are Eastern Orthodox, your sect separated from Catholicism around the year 1000.

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded my Martin Luther, an ex-Monk of the Catholic Church, in 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England (Anglican), your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded when John Knox brought the teachings of John Calvin to Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Unitarian, your religious group developed in Europe in the 1500's

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion branched off from Puritanism in the early 1600's in England.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1607.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was founded by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are an Episcopalian, your religion was brought over from England, to the American colonies and formed a separate religion founded by Samuel Seabury in 1789.

If you are a Mormon (Latter-Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your church in Palmyra, N.Y., NOT Salt Lake City, which would have been my guess. The year was 1830.

If you worship with the Salvation Army (yes, it's a religious group, not just an organization that collects money in kettles on Christmas and serves dinners to the homeless), your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year your religion was founded by Mary Baker Eddy.

If you are a Jehovah's Witness, your religion was founded by Charles Taze Russell in Pennsylvania in the 1870's.

If you are a Pentecostal, your religion was started in the United States in 1901.

If you are an agnostic, you profess an uncertainty or a skepticism about the existence of God or a Higher Being.

If you are an atheist, you do not believe in the existence of God or any other higher power.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='992275' date='May 29 2006, 08:35 AM']
was "catholicism" ever mentioned in any scripture of the Holy Bible??

and if not...why do you think that was???


[/quote]


Bro,
Check this out..

[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0002.html"]http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/...ics/ap0002.html[/url]


And...
[url="http://www.ScriptureCatholic.com"]http://www.ScriptureCatholic.com[/url]
[url="http://www.Catholic.com"]http://www.Catholic.com[/url] (the links on the left of the page... i.e. Sacraments, Church, etc...)

God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='992545' date='May 29 2006, 09:15 PM']
so what about the year christ was born. Jesuss faith to worship God. the moment of his birth. what about before jesus was born when he was still with God in heaven. before Catholism was ever created before abraham HE WAS. and then he 'accidentally' forgot to mention catholicism?? i think worshiping God is Christianity. The religion. where few are gathered in His name, there he is. We are the church. i not saying Catholicism is wrong. im saying that saying by only Catholicism is wrong. Its obvious and sad thing is you know it. dont lie to yourself and dont be scared im trying to get you to lose your faith. im just saying open your heart to everything. im not trying to convert you. ACTUALLY i pray you stand firmer in your faith your beliefs your religion and in catholicism, but dont condemn me. am i wrong for saying you are wrong..i think so. but am i telling you the truth? I know i am because i believe it in my heart. Thats all.

as any christian i pray that all people all nations all tongues all denominations and all churches come together out of love. For God. that is the most important. its God vision.

Catholic or not. period. forever.
[/quote]


All who leave the first group are wrong to do so and do so to their own destruction. Christ and the Apostles preached the importance of unity... one faith... Not two, not three, not 35,000 +

The Apostle spoke some very strong words when he said "the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction" in 2 Peter 3.

"Destruction"... into the Gehenna, aka the lake of unquenchable fire to burn for eternity.

The seriousness of the correct teaching is a matter of life and death... and not the tempary life on earth. Out of ignorance those who are raised in error could be safe and will be judged based on their conscience and how they judge others... Having the truth of the Catholic Church and leaving it is spiritual suicide.




[b]John 14:16[/b]
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always,
[b]17 [/b] the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.
[b]18 [/b] I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.



[b]1 Tim 3:15[/b]
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.


[b]St Matt 18:17[/b] (Jesus said) If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. 14 If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.


[b]St. Matt 28:18[/b] Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
[b]19 [/b] Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
[b]20 [/b] teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. 13 And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."


[b]Luke 10:16[/b] "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me"


[b]2 Timothy 3:14 [/b]
But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, because you know from whom you learned it,


[b]Acts 20:29 [/b]
I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock.
[b]30 [/b] And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.


[b]2 Peter 3:15[/b] And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,
[b]16 [/b] speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.
[b]17 [/b] Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability.




[b]Ignatius of Antioch [/b]

"Not as Peter and Paul did, do I command you [Romans]. They were apostles, and I am a convict" (Letter to the Romans 4:3 [A.D. 110])

"Ignatius . . . to the church also which holds the presidency, in the location of the country of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the presidency in love, named after Christ and named after the Father" (Letter to the Romans 1:1 [A.D. 110]).

"You [the church at Rome] have envied no one, but others you have taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force" (ibid., 3:1). .

[b]Irenaeus [/b]

"Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church" (Against Heresies, 3, 1:1 [A.D. 189])

"It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about" (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. 189]).

[b]Augustine [/b]

"If the very order of episcopal succession is to be considered, how much more surely, truly, and safely do we number them from Peter himself, to whom, as to one representing the whole Church, the Lord said, ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church’ . . . [Matt. 16:18]. Peter was succeeded by Linus, Linus by Clement, Clement by Anacletus, Anacletus by Evaristus . . . " (Letters 53:1:2 [A.D. 412]).



God Bless,
ironmonk

[quote name='journeyman' post='992525' date='May 29 2006, 08:39 PM']
Of interest - since it asserts the opposite of Catholic understanding of most time lines
[url="http://www.speroforum.com/wiki/default.aspx/SperoWiki/BaptistChristianComparison.html"]From a Baptist Perspective[/url]
[/quote]

sad how some distort knowingly.

If they actually did the research, then they would have seen the quotes that show the Catholic Faith from the first century and no where will they find what they claim.

[rckllnknny]

lol.

quote..A denomination is a group that has broken off the original. So protestants are a denomiation that has left the Catholic Church.

no its not. Catholic is a denomination. i was talking about non-denominational anyways. which for the ssame reason wsnt on the timeline. non-denominational had to happen first befor everything else fell into denominations. which existed forever. its just the pure true form of christianity. Catholicism has been reshaped over the years as you have said with books being collected and choosing some and refusing others. the protestant is protesting mans creed. with is Catholicism. i never said this was anything wrong with praying a cetain way. i said it was never in the bible. thats all. an independant church base on scripture of Gods creed. im not trying to argue a point of view. i can see where you can be right too. im not trying to convert anyone anyway. like i said i pray you all become stronger Catholics. Catholic is a very organized church. it has also grown and manifested over time into something unexplainable and beautiful. i cant deny that and i wouldnt choose to. Christianity is a religion. And God is love which should be taught above all things. By all people. For all things. But we should have a better understanding of the fullness of truth as it grows. Everyone Always. I love you guys. And were all right. im trying to prove a point...sure. But a good pne. About love and respect and understanding. ....the 'passion' of OUR Christ. FOREVER.....

Edited May 30, 2006 by rckllnknny

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='992802' date='May 30 2006, 10:54 AM']
lol.

quote..A denomination is a group that has broken off the original. So protestants are a denomiation that has left the Catholic Church.

no its not. Catholic is a denomination. i was talking about non-denominational anyways. which for the ssame reason wsnt on the timeline. non-denominational had to happen first befor everything else fell into denominations. which existed forever. its just the pure true form of christianity. Catholicism has been reshaped over the years as you have said with books being collected and choosing some and refusing others. the protestant is protesting mans creed. with is Catholicism. i never said this was anything wrong with praying a cetain way. i said it was never in the bible. thats all. an independant church base on scripture of Gods creed. im not trying to argue a point of view. i can see where you can be right too. im not trying to convert anyone anyway. like i said i pray you all become stronger Catholics. Catholic is a very organized church. it has also grown and manifested over time into something unexplainable and beautiful. i cant deny that and i wouldnt choose to. Christianity is a religion. And God is love which should be taught above all things. By all people. For all things. But we should have a better understanding of the fullness of truth as it grows. Everyone Always. I love you guys. And were all right. im trying to prove a point...sure. But a good pne. About love and respect and understanding. ....the 'passion' of OUR Christ. FOREVER.....
[/quote]
The Catholic church is not a denomination, we didn't break off from anyone else, we are the church founded by Jesus. The Catholic Church decided with books are in the bible that you are reading. The bible came AFTER the Catholic Church. Non-denominational simply means a group that doesn't belong to any other the large groups: episcopalians, methodists, lutherans etc.

[ironmonk]

Catholicism is not a denomination.

Catholicism = pure unadulterated Christianity... you can see this is true by reading the writings of the first Christians... from as early as 70 AD.

We did not have the canon of the New Testament until 400 AD... The Catholic Church existed before the New Testament. The Catholic Church gave us the New Testament.

St. Augustine was one of the Bishops involved in the canonization of the New Testament... out of over 200 books, only 27 where chosen... all by Catholic Bishops.


Why don't you go to [url="http://www.Catholic.com"]http://www.Catholic.com[/url] and study up on the quotes, then go to [url="http://www.NewAdvent.org/Fathers/"]http://www.NewAdvent.org/Fathers/[/url] and look them up for yourself.

What happened to you, I thought you were Catholic? Someone has filled your head with error... you can fix it by doing the research.

Why don't you do the research of the early Church writings from the first century?

Why are you caught up with an English word? The Apostles spoke Aramaic and the Scriptures where written in Aramaic, Greek, and Hebrew, then to Latin, and then to English.

Instead of saying what you think happened and assuming what happened, come with writings from the first and second centuries that prove your point... there are none, but I want you to see for yourself, please try to find them.

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/"]http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/[/url]

Here's another resource:
[b]Roman Catholicism[/b]
Christian church characterized by its uniform, highly developed doctrinal and organizational structure that [b][u]traces its history to the Apostles of Jesus Christ in the 1st century AD[/u][/b]. Along with Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism, it is one of the three major branches of Christianity.

"Roman Catholicism." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2006. Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service. 30 May 2006 <http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9109700>.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='992802' date='May 30 2006, 09:54 AM']
lol.

quote..A denomination is a group that has broken off the original. So protestants are a denomiation that has left the Catholic Church.

no its not. Catholic is a denomination. i was talking about non-denominational anyways. which for the ssame reason wsnt on the timeline. non-denominational had to happen first befor everything else fell into denominations. which existed forever. its just the pure true form of christianity.
[/quote]

Please study history. The only way that non-denominational would be before Catholicism would be if there was a mass firing of all the bishops and replacement with new ones, thus breaking the line of apostolic succession. The only time I am aware of this happening was when the Anglican Church was founded. All Catholic bishops can trace their episcopal lineage back to the apostles. Can non-denominational say that (for that matter, does non-denominational even have bishops)?

[XIX]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='992802' date='May 30 2006, 08:54 AM']
im trying to prove a point...sure. But a good pne. About love and respect and understanding. ....the 'passion' of OUR Christ. FOREVER.....
[/quote]

[ironmonk]

Love is sacrifice.

Love demands truth.

Love demands correction.

To Love is to want someone to have the truth, the full truth, and nothing but the truth. To love is to want someone to go to Heaven. To love is to help them get there.

Showing someone their error is not a disrespect, but it is love.

To ignore someone's error is disrepect and shows a lack of love.

[Franimus]

[size=4]WILL YOU PEOPLE STOP SAYING THAT CATHOLICISM IS NOT A DENOMINATION?!?[/size]
It's actually heretical to say that Catholicism is not a "denomination."
From Dictionary.com:
de·nom·i·na·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-nm-nshn)
n.
A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.
One of a series of kinds, values, or sizes, as in a system of currency or weights: Cash registers have compartments for bills of different denominations. The stamps come in 25¢ and 45¢ denominations.
A name or designation, especially for a class or group.

Denomination merely means the name given to a group. Non-denominational, then, refers to a group that is nameless. Catholicism is equally a denomination just as is Protestantism, and all forms of both of those.
Now, I'm going to move into something that could contain a hint of my own opinion:
I think that it is true that the early Church was "non-denominational" since, as rc says, there were no separate denominations back then, and they did not have any need to name themselves. You all know as well as I do that the Christians back then did not name themselves Catholic right away. RC has proved his point, for reasons yet unknown, that the Bible does not state that Christ called the Church the "Catholic Church." This is not to say that the Catholic Church is not the Church that Christ founded. Back to where I started this paragraph, the earliest Christians were non-denominational. When they started calling themselves Catholic, they became a denomination, but they were the only denomination, and non-denominational Christianity ceased. Years later, we get into the schisms and the breakoffs and such, and we see other denominations formed, until we get to where we are today.

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='Franimus' post='993701' date='May 31 2006, 04:31 PM']
[size=4]WILL YOU PEOPLE STOP SAYING THAT CATHOLICISM IS NOT A DENOMINATION?!?[/size]
It's actually heretical to say that Catholicism is not a "denomination."
From Dictionary.com:
de·nom·i·na·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-nm-nshn)
n.
A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.
One of a series of kinds, values, or sizes, as in a system of currency or weights: Cash registers have compartments for bills of different denominations. The stamps come in 25¢ and 45¢ denominations.
A name or designation, especially for a class or group.

Denomination merely means the name given to a group. Non-denominational, then, refers to a group that is nameless. Catholicism is equally a denomination just as is Protestantism, and all forms of both of those.
Now, I'm going to move into something that could contain a hint of my own opinion:
I think that it is true that the early Church was "non-denominational" since, as rc says, there were no separate denominations back then, and they did not have any need to name themselves. You all know as well as I do that the Christians back then did not name themselves Catholic right away. RC has proved his point, for reasons yet unknown, that the Bible does not state that Christ called the Church the "Catholic Church." This is not to say that the Catholic Church is not the Church that Christ founded. Back to where I started this paragraph, the earliest Christians were non-denominational. When they started calling themselves Catholic, they became a denomination, but they were the only denomination, and non-denominational Christianity ceased. Years later, we get into the schisms and the breakoffs and such, and we see other denominations formed, until we get to where we are today.
[/quote]
i still would have to disagree.

[Franimus]

[quote name='ReinnieR' post='993767' date='May 31 2006, 06:00 PM']
i still would have to disagree.
[/quote]
disagree with what?