Is slavery immoral?

[Resurrexi]

Do you think slavery is moral or immoral?

Edited June 1, 2006 by StThomasMore

[Franimus]

I have been seriously considering starting this topic myself for the past week...
I've been thinking about it, and I think that slavery can be moral, as long as you treat the slaves as human beings and provide for all of their needs. Basically, it's like having kids, except the love is different, and you're not raising them, but they're definatly going to do the work that you need done.
I think of the Christian form of slavery more like hiring a servant, and then instead of paying him wages, give him food to eat and a place to sleep (which is what paying him wages does anyways). There are numerous sections in the New Testament letters which describe how Christian slaves and slavers are to act towards each other. I'm pretty sure it says nothing about freeing your slaves.

[ruso]

Please, we are in the century XXI, also there are several forms of slavery( sexual, domestic,work...) The slavery is ilegal and immoral under any circumstance.
If it is not a mortal sin, should be.

[ChrisZewe]

The fact that the Bible condones it aside, what are we all but Jehovah God's loving, albeit frequently disobedient, slaves?

[homeschoolmom]

Okay... get over here, clean my house top to bottom and I'll make you a sandwich.

[ChrisZewe]

I'm just an imperfect young man, quite prone to sinning. And I don't particularly care for you, based a lot on the fact that you have your kids homeschooled, to be completely honest >_> So no. I would like a sandwhich, however.

[homeschoolmom]

I didn't mean you. I meant whoever thought it was okay for me to enslave them as long as I provided them with something to eat.

[ChrisZewe]

I think the eating was representative of being provided with adequate room and board in exchange for servitude.

[missionseeker]

Slavery takes away the dignity of a human person, making it immoral.

Treating your slaves in a "Christian manner" does not make them free to make their own choices. They still have to do what you tell them to. If they have a family, they depend on your kindness to make sure that their children/spouse get fed. They wouldn't have the freedom to make the choices that you and I take for granted. (What am I going to do today? With my life? Where do I want to go to school and what do I want to study) Slavery makes humans into animals and is immoral.

Let's say you have slaves and treat them "well". But then you die. Your heirs can sell, mistreat, and kill them whether YOU personally would have or not.

Slavery is not moral.

[ChrisZewe]

That was more full of holes than...something that is very full of holes. Make your own analogy.

[missionseeker]

why?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='missionseeker' post='994007' date='May 31 2006, 09:46 PM']
Slavery takes away the dignity of a human person, making it immoral.

Treating your slaves in a "Christian manner" does not make them free to make their own choices. They still have to do what you tell them to. If they have a family, they depend on your kindness to make sure that their children/spouse get fed. They wouldn't have the freedom to make the choices that you and I take for granted. (What am I going to do today? With my life? Where do I want to go to school and what do I want to study) Slavery makes humans into animals and is immoral.

Let's say you have slaves and treat them "well". But then you die. Your heirs can sell, mistreat, and kill them whether YOU personally would have or not.

Slavery is not moral.
[/quote]

the bible disagrees. i may be mistaken, but didn't St. paul told slaves to remain slaves?

[missionseeker]

[quote]18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them. 20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord. 21 Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged. 22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism. [/quote]

[quote]5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free. 9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him. [/quote]

[quote]1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine. 2 Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance. 3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God. 6 Similarly, encourage the young men to be self-controlled. 7 In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness 8 and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us. 9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, 10 and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive. [/quote]

[quote]13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. 16 Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. 17 Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king. 18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. 22 "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth." 23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. [/quote]

I don't think he's endorsing slavery or even saying that it is moral. I think he is giving instruction and encouragement to those slaves who wish for freedom of soul since they have no freedom of body.

[Norseman82]

CCC 2414:

[quote]The seventh commandment forbids acts or enterprises that for any reason - selfish or ideological, commercial, or totalitarian - lead to the [i]enslavement of human beings[/i], to their being bought, sold, and exchanged like merchandise, in disregard for their personal dignity. It is a sin against the dignity of persons and their fundamental rights to reduce them by violence to their productive value or to a source of profit. St. Paul directed a Christian master to treat his Christian slave "no longer as a slave but more than a slave, as a beloved brother,...both in the flesh and in the Lord."[/quote]

[heavenseeker]

immoral

[Franimus]

hmn...good quote norseman. I think I'll change my opinion to indentured, contracted, or permanant servents being morally permissable, but outright slaves not. As long as the servent chooses to be a servent, it's fine, right? (not that there's really any difference imo between a servent and a slave except one gets money and the other gets room and board... oh, right, the buying/selling thing too..) What if slaves were not allowed to be bought or sold, and had to agree to become a slave in the first place? Not really much of a slave then.. definatly more of a servant since choice was involved at one point.

[OLAM Dad]

Is this a trick question?

[ironmonk]

Indentured servatude is not immoral.

Slavery based on race or because someone was conquered is always immoral.

The Church has always condemned slavery of people based on race or culture.


- the above is based on Church teachings - I don't have time to find the documents, but Thess has a ton of info on this topic.

The Catholic Church was against slavery when non-Catholic churches were not.

[CrossCuT]

[size=1][color="330000"]I thought the country already solved this problem a long time ago...

Immoral.
[/color][/size]

[Resurrexi]

"I thought the country already solved this problem a long time ago...

Immoral."

I dont think it really matters what the country says. They say abortion is moral, and it obviously is not.

"Is this a trick question?"

no.