freegrace Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Being fairly new to the board ive only seen a glimpse of some of the topics but ive seen many reference to how many different denominations there are. I would like to just clear one thing up.. There is a difference between christian life doctrine and church life doctrine (or primary and secondary or fellowship breaking and church breaking). For example One of the biggest difference between the baptists and the presbytarians is the understanding of infant baptism. This has a lot to do with church practice but nothing to do with salvation. They both have the same gospel.. at least as far as their confessions are concerened. Somethings are secondary such as does christ return before or after the rapture.. does this have a lot of application today? Not really, do churches split over it.. im sure they do. And just because the reformation happened doesn't mean the catholic church was always in error. The definition of "reform" means going back to the way it was. The catholic church didn't always put mary in the place she is now.. also it didn't always believe in free will (remember you condemned pelagian and now it basically is pelagian). So things have changed, remember vatican II? I don't think its fair to pull the "30,000 denominations" line out when its illogical, and in humility, its ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 thanks freegrace and on the gospel message, there are typically only two stances which I would say 90% or more denominations hold to That is the Lordship-Salvation stance, and the Salvation by Grace stance. The names don't explain the two fully, and I won't go into it here, but they are very similar, and do not deny the content of salvation, only how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Being fairly new to the board ive only seen a glimpse of some of the topics but ive seen many reference to how many different denominations there are. I would like to just clear one thing up.. There is a difference between christian life doctrine and church life doctrine (or primary and secondary or fellowship breaking and church breaking). For example One of the biggest difference between the baptists and the presbytarians is the understanding of infant baptism. This has a lot to do with church practice but nothing to do with salvation. They both have the same gospel.. at least as far as their confessions are concerened. Somethings are secondary such as does christ return before or after the rapture.. does this have a lot of application today? Not really, do churches split over it.. im sure they do. And just because the reformation happened doesn't mean the catholic church was always in error. The definition of "reform" means going back to the way it was. The catholic church didn't always put mary in the place she is now.. also it didn't always believe in free will (remember you condemned pelagian and now it basically is pelagian). So things have changed, remember vatican II? I don't think its fair to pull the "30,000 denominations" line out when its illogical, and in humility, its ignorant. so....do you have a question or are you just telling us all we are wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 well considering this isn't the Q&A forum, and is the debate forum, I would go for the latter ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 well considering this isn't the Q&A forum, and is the debate forum, I would go for the latter That is what I thought too until I read the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 rotfl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 That is what I thought too until I read the subject. Actuall to be totally honest, I read the subject line first, then the body, then the subject line again, thus my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozencell Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 thanks freegrace and on the gospel message, there are typically only two stances which I would say 90% or more denominations hold to That is the Lordship-Salvation stance, and the Salvation by Grace stance. The names don't explain the two fully, and I won't go into it here, but they are very similar, and do not deny the content of salvation, only how it works. Funny. I think this applies to maybe the Protestants on here, too. *COUGH*bruce s*COUGH*. It doesn't seem right that Protestants can sit here and post list after shoddily researched list of Catholic Rites as denominations (and even some that are blatently NOT CATHOLIC [voodoo Catholicism]) and then rally to the "Down with Protestant-denomination-calling" cry. If we can't refer to the Protestant denominations then you can't refer to the Catholic rites. And that defeats the whole purpose of the board and debating, so why don't we all go over to Baskin-Robbins where they have a 800 different flavors of ice cream and we can argue over which one taste the most like original vanilla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 If we can't refer to the Protestant denominations then you can't refer to the Catholic rites. And that defeats the whole purpose of the board and debating I am here for the truth to be spread and learned, not for debate in itself. If you don't consider, how do you know your truth to be the correct one? Blind faith leads no one to Christ, only active living faith that constantly thinks, rethinks, and grows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 why don't we all go over to Baskin-Robbins where they have a 800 different flavors of ice cream and we can argue over which one taste the most like original vanilla. i LOVE icecream!! ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Being fairly new to the board ive only seen a glimpse of some of the topics but ive seen many reference to how many different denominations there are. I would like to just clear one thing up.. There is a difference between christian life doctrine and church life doctrine (or primary and secondary or fellowship breaking and church breaking). For example One of the biggest difference between the baptists and the presbytarians is the understanding of infant baptism. This has a lot to do with church practice but nothing to do with salvation. They both have the same gospel.. at least as far as their confessions are concerened. Somethings are secondary such as does christ return before or after the rapture.. does this have a lot of application today? Not really, do churches split over it.. im sure they do. And just because the reformation happened doesn't mean the catholic church was always in error. The definition of "reform" means going back to the way it was. The catholic church didn't always put mary in the place she is now.. also it didn't always believe in free will (remember you condemned pelagian and now it basically is pelagian). So things have changed, remember vatican II? I don't think its fair to pull the "30,000 denominations" line out when its illogical, and in humility, its ignorant. There are 34,000 +, and they do not preach the same Gospel. The number comes from a protestant resource, so if you got issues with it, take it up with them. By your definition then the Catholic Church has the same Gospel as the Protestant churches. Yes, Mary has always been in the place she is now. And Catholicism has nothing to do with pelagianism, it condemned it, and continues to do so. If you read about Catholicism from a Catholic source, you would know this. The Church has always preached freewill. Things go to council when there is a discrepency within the ranks of the Church. Please go here and hear about Catholicism from a Catholic source... http://www.catholic.com/library.asp http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm http://www.catholic.com/library/mary_saints.asp http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11604a.htm http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ179.HTM http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ330.HTM Get info from the horses mouth... not the jackass. If you want to know what Catholicism teaches, then go to a Catholic source... If I wanted to know what your church taught, why would I listen to anyone but your church? Basic research. Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozencell Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 I am here for the truth to be spread and learned, not for debate in itself. If you don't consider, how do you know your truth to be the correct one? Blind faith leads no one to Christ, only active living faith that constantly thinks, rethinks, and grows. I just don't like the vibe of "we can but you can't" that I got from those last couple of posts. I had enough of that on the Christianity.com site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Get info from the horses mouth... not the jackass. If you want to know what Catholicism teaches, then go to a Catholic source... If I wanted to know what your church taught, why would I listen to anyone but your church? Basic research. a) I am at a Catholics Apologetics forum am I not? b) You don't seem to listen to me when I correct you on protestantism. Perhaps you need some of your own medicine. By your definition then the Catholic Church has the same Gospel as the Protestant churches. You may mean the other persons, but if you study the protestants gospel of "Lordship Salvation" or the other one we are saved by Grace alone. That is not the Catholic Church's gospel. The two I spoke of differ merely on if a lifestyle must be repented for true repentance to occur, or if repentance from unbelief exists outside of works and works are the result. Again the content is the same. So when you say... There are 34,000 +, and they do not preach the same Gospel. you are apparently forgetting this because in actuality we have a) had many Catholics agree that the list of 34,000 was based on not good things because it divided the Catholic church up as well and b) the gospel is the same through all of them that hold the bible inspired excluding the ones the Evangelistic community and Catholic acknowledges as heretics (Jehovah's witnesses, Mormon's etc.) denying even the trinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Blaze Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 I am here for the truth to be spread and learned, not for debate in itself. If you don't consider, how do you know your truth to be the correct one? Blind faith leads no one to Christ, only active living faith that constantly thinks, rethinks, and grows. I have a question CM, The truth...................... You believe the Christ is our Saviour................................. The person you debate believes Christ is his Saviour...................... I believe that Christ is my Saviour................................... I've considered the many perspectives of Christianity, and I choose to be CATHOLIC....many phatmass members have chosen to be CATHOLIC after they have sought the truth, questioned and rethought...... as have my Catholics to other forms of Christianity.......so simply put...GET OVER IT!!!! If you want to spread truth, spread the GOOD NEWS TO PEOPLE THAT DON"T HAVE GOD IN THEIR LIVES>>>NOT BY TRYING TO SWAY PEOPLE FROM THEIR CONVICTION IN CHRIST AND HIS CHURCH JUST BECAUSE IT DOESN"T AGREE WITH YOUR PERSONAL VIEW OF IT................ Can I get an AMEN in here? Yours always in CHrist ~S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 I have a question CM, The truth...................... You believe the Christ is our Saviour................................. The person you debate believes Christ is his Saviour...................... I believe that Christ is my Saviour................................... I've considered the many perspectives of Christianity, and I choose to be CATHOLIC....many phatmass members have chosen to be CATHOLIC after they have sought the truth, questioned and rethought...... as have my Catholics to other forms of Christianity.......so simply put...GET OVER IT!!!! If you want to spread truth, spread the GOOD NEWS TO PEOPLE THAT DON"T HAVE GOD IN THEIR LIVES>>>NOT BY TRYING TO SWAY PEOPLE FROM THEIR CONVICTION IN CHRIST AND HIS CHURCH JUST BECAUSE IT DOESN"T AGREE WITH YOUR PERSONAL VIEW OF IT................ Can I get an AMEN in here? Yours always in CHrist ~S. AMEN!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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