Moral culpability

[homeschoolmom]

I agree that if she intended to have the abortion, but none was performed, she still guilty of willing for it.

I find it odd then, that in our justice system, the same standard does not apply. If I put poison in Sojourner's coffee with the intent to kill her, but instead I only make her really, really sick (btw, how you feeling today, Abby?) I would only be charged with attempted murder rather than murder. If the criminal fails to commit the crime (by their own stupidity or incompitence), they are charged with a lesser crime....

[Sojourner]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1017381' date='Jul 5 2006, 09:02 AM']
I agree that if she intended to have the abortion, but none was performed, she still guilty of willing for it.

I find it odd then, that in our justice system, the same standard does not apply. If I put poison in Sojourner's coffee with the intent to kill her, but instead I only make her really, really sick (btw, how you feeling today, Abby?) I would only be charged with attempted murder rather than murder. If the criminal fails to commit the crime (by their own stupidity or incompitence), they are charged with a lesser crime....
[/quote]

I'm feeling fine ....



Another interesting tidbit about intent in our criminal justice system ... in many states, if someone dies during the commission of a felony, the offender can be charged with murder, even if that was not their original intent. For example, we had a situation a few years ago in which a prominent older lawyer was kidnapped and held for ransom. During the course of the kidnapping, he had a heart attack and died. Even though the kidnapper never intended to kill him, the kidnapper was also charged with murder because of the death.

But you're right that attempted murder doesn't warrant the same punishment as the real thing. And that seems to make sense -- that if you aren't actually able to achieve the end goal (a good thing, in this case) that it's not as bad as if you had actually succeeded. So as a society, we don't weigh intent as heavily in judgment of culpability, although it is an essential part of a conviction. But intent must be coupled with a completed action to warrant the most serious charges and sentence.

It reminds me of God's words to Samuel when Samuel was sent to annoint David king of Israel in the OT: But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

[scardella]

Umm... If she used a guy's urine for the pregnancy test... why would she get an abortion based on that?

[homeschoolmom]

Yes, Soj neglected to fill in the details (bad reporting dear). The investigation was about an abortion clinic that was performing non-abortions on women claiming they were pregnant when they weren't. They'd go in, take the test and everyone was given a posstive result and an abortion.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1017406' date='Jul 5 2006, 09:56 AM']
Yes, Soj neglected to fill in the details (bad reporting dear). The investigation was about an abortion clinic that was performing non-abortions on women claiming they were pregnant when they weren't. They'd go in, take the test and everyone was given a posstive result and an abortion.
[/quote]
Reason number 1 why it's a very good thing for me to have an editor.

[homeschoolmom]

I just realized that mine was badly written as well. The women went into the clinic thinking they may be pregnent. They were given a test and, whether they were pregnant or not, they were told that they were. All of the women were given an abortion, even those who weren't pregnant.

[Franimus]

I think the justice system has something somewhat right in putting weight on intent, but not equal weight. I would say that the woman who schedules an abortion but does not follow through is still guilty to some degree, but is not completely guilty because she repented before the act was committed. A movie line from that Tom Cruise movie about the future-predictions comes to mind "You still have the choice!" - he chose not to pull the trigger; the other guy killed himself (even though the other guy was killing himself all along...) I forget the name of the movie, but it definatly pertains to this discussion (especially the ending)