Will my boyfriend and I be allowed to get married?

[Norseman82]

Back to the serious discussion. What is his concern regarding raising children as an older male? Is it financial? Health? Or did he get discouraged by the long wait? My suggestion, in addition to seeking counsel, particularly from a good solid priest, might be to see if you boyfriend comes back around to desiring children (I wouldn't suggest waiting too long - maybe a few months - otherwise your clock [i]will[/i] be ticking so loudly that people around you will be calling ATF). He should also have a good physical and make sure he stays fit.

Edited July 5, 2006 by Norseman82

[KatS]

[quote]I just realized that we're (myself included) having a little fun with a topic that you probably aren't seeing as "lighthearted". For that, I apologize[/quote]

Oh no, everything's cool. I needed a good laugh; I just keep moping about it.

[quote]Its wonderful that you've found someone that you're in love with and want to spend the rest of your life with. It is also wonderful that you want to marry him in the Church!

It is the case that your fiance does not want to have children at this stage in his life. It may (or not) be the case that you are fine at the prospect of not having children. [/quote]

I love him. I'm crazy about him. Despite our HUGE age difference, we get along very well...I don't know if that means I'm really mature for my age (which I'm not) or if he's really immature for his age (which he isn't)

Yeah, I do want to get married in the Church. After so many years of not being Catholic, well, it's just really good to be back!

[quote]I strongly suggest that you seek counsel with the priest from your church.[/quote]

Yeah I need to do that. It's so easy talking to y'all first. And y'all cheer me up too. (You can tell I live in the South can't you?)

[Pontifite 7 of 10]

Yes you are such a Hick...j/k

[KatS]

[quote]But I don't think this is a good time to talk about Celery[/quote]

Ooooh, don't get me started about celery...

[quote]Back to the serious discussion. What is his concern regarding raising children as an older male? Is it financial? Health? Or did he get discouraged by the long wait?[/quote]

Maybe health, I suppose. He is very self-conscious (sp?) about his age. But he's in great shape - he doesn't smoke, doesn't drink excessively (the most alcohol I ever saw him consume was two beers with a big dinner), and he almost never eats meat. I mean, he has a good diet. If there's any man who's going to live to 100, it's him.

When he said he was just too old, I was crestfallen. I tried to convince him in a lighthearted way that he wasn't too old, but at the same time, I didn't want to go crazy about it and sound like I was nagging him. I figured that I would turn him off completely to the idea of kids if I kept going on and on about it.

[prose]

Have you tried to talk to him about what your faith asks of you if you choose to marry within the Church? Maybe he doesn't understand the gravity of the issue.

I am not saying he needs to be planning kids next week, but perhaps if he realizes that as a Catholic, you believe that it is something that marriage calls you to be (open to children that is), perhaps he will have a different view.

[KatS]

[quote]Have you tried to talk to him about what your faith asks of you if you choose to marry within the Church? Maybe he doesn't understand the gravity of the issue.

I am not saying he needs to be planning kids next week, but perhaps if he realizes that as a Catholic, you believe that it is something that marriage calls you to be (open to children that is), perhaps he will have a different view.[/quote]

Y'know that is also true because he does not follow any religion. We started dating a loooooooong time ago when I was agnostic. Our lack of interest in religion was something we had in common. But now that I am Christian again, he is really respectful. So I would certainly hope that (marriage w/kids) is something he would understand too.

[homeschoolmom]

Kids keep you young while at the same time making you feel cronically fatigued. (In a good way, of course)

[KatS]

[quote]Yes you are such a Hick...j/k[/quote]

OK you keep that up and I'll make you eat celery :

[quote]Kids keep you young while at the same time making you feel cronically fatigued. (In a good way, of course)[/quote]

Hey that's something else I can pass on to him Hey, when you're young you can handle the fatigue

Edited July 5, 2006 by KatS

[Mary-Kathryn]

[quote name='KatS' post='1017703' date='Jul 5 2006, 04:23 PM']


Y'all are too funny...
If I found the right man, I would want to have kids. (Well after marriage ) That's why I've been really depressed for the past few weeks. I mean, not a clinical chemical-imbalance depression, just well, trying to figure out what to do.
[/quote]


As much as you are hurting, you are on the right track. You are questioning the validity of a marriage where one partener does not want children and you are acknowledging the fact that you DO want to have children.




I'll keep you in my prayers

[Norseman82]

[quote name='KatS' post='1017729' date='Jul 5 2006, 03:51 PM']
Y'know that is also true because he does not follow any religion. We started dating a loooooooong time ago when I was agnostic. Our lack of interest in religion was something we had in common. But now that I am Christian again, he is really respectful. So I would certainly hope that (marriage w/kids) is something he would understand too.
[/quote]


OK, now that you mention the religious differences, that is also something that youse two (yes, I'm from Chicago) needs to get ironed out. It can cause youse two problems in two critical areas:

1) How the children will be raised;
2) If he does not accept the Church's teacing on birth control, you could be forced to choose between sin and abstention.

It's just a good thing that you are trying to straighten this out [i]before[/i] youse two get married.

[Socrates]

I hope I don't come off as rude, but since this is being posted on a public forum . . .

The Catholic Church teaches that openess to children is required in a marriage.
If this man is not open to the possiblility of children, he should not get married.
Contraception is sinful, and if this is what he insists upon, quite frankly you should not marry him, no matter how emotionally attached you may be to one another.

And btw, I've known people whose fathers were in their 70s when they were in their twenties. Raising children later in one's life has its challenges, but it is not impossible, particularly if this man is as healthy as you say.

The other people have given good advice here.

[Pontifite 7 of 10]

[Era Might]

I don't think it's as simple to say "openness to children is required". There are many factors that justify the recourse to periods of infertility. Elderly couples are under no delusion that they are "open to life", in the sense that they expect to conceive. They know they can't conceive, but that's not the point. Age IS a legitimate factor. Not the only one, but it has to be factored in. Were Joseph and Mary "open to life"? They willfully abstained for the duration of their marriage.

Like I said before, a Priest will know her situation personally and will be able to counsel. We can't really offer any real guidance.

[alicemary]

My answer will not please alot of people but since I am the age of the man you would like to marry, I may have a slightly different view. If any one thinks a 50 year old wants to have kids they are out of their ever loving mind. It is an appaling thought. You should be having them in your 20-30's for the most part. A 50 year old male has a life expectancy of about 20-30 years at best...who the heck is going to raise these kids? It is a cruel things, but by age 60 many men have had a stroke or a heart attack and are in no physical shape to care for an infant. They are looking forward and anticipating retirement, not starting a family.
Marry him...you bet. He can easily get snipped...sorry people but this is cold hard reality. it is very easy, when you are 20 years old to judge someone who is 50. Wait until you walk in their shoes. I do not have the stamina to raise a child, it would probably kill me, and you know what, at this age I do not want one.
I love Catholicism, but not when it comes to this. If you really love this man, and want to spend your llife with him, then go for it. Seek out a priest and ask their advice, but under no circumstances, expect this man to willingly have a child at his age. That would be very, very unrealistic. If you really want children(need we say the biological clock is ticking), then you may have to find someone else. And lets face it, again, hard reality, most 30 years old areen't too happy about having kids either. by time they are in their mid 30's, they either have had the kids and marriage before and don't want to do that again, or they don't want kids.
Again, this is not a discussion for 20 year olds, you just are too young to really understand all the implications. And a church that would require marriage in a man in his 50's is sorry indeed. God gave you intelligence to make decisions, make it as an adult. Do not put your beliefs on to another person and expect them to dance to your tune.
I think the ONLY factor is DO YOU WANT KIDS.. If so start looking elsewhere and hurry up the search. Hey, I know what you are feeling, been there, done that. I just an tell you what I would do.
Like I said, I know what hate emails this will generate, but I can only tell you what is in my OLD HEART.

[Era Might]

Alice, you are sadly mistaken on many fronts. I'll just leave it at that.

Kat, talk to a good Priest. That is the best advice anyone can give you.

[missionseeker]

adopt teenagers.... lol

[Kristen]

OK< lets skip the "rules" sin/not a sin part and just try to look at this from the logical point of view of the church and human anthropology.

Marriage is a sexual relationship.

All healthy sexuality involves an understanding that babies can/may be a part of that.

If you, as a woman, can bear children, and he, as a man, can contribute to that process , then the church asks you to love each other that way, as God made you procreative creatures.

If this man does not want children he has a very stunted view of marriage, sexuality, and relationships.

Essentially, he is not loving and accepting you as a woman for who you are. He will be asking you to fight or limit who you are--through birth control---and in a way, may as well marry a man. (I am in no way advocating this or giving any credence to marriage between two men). What I mean is, he needs to understand and accept his relationship with you as a woman who has the potential for kids in a sexual relationship.

I hope that makes sense.

Your boyfriends view and your potential marriage all depends on a few things. First, if he simply needs to learn more about marriage, sexuality, etc, then he may change his mind. But, second, if he simply is selfish, that will not work. It all depends on the state of his heart, what he knows, and the reasons for his view. I'm sure you have more insight into the situation. But basically, if you enter into a marriage (including sex) you have to be willing to take on the responsability of children that may entail.

PS

After rereading your first post, I realized it is all about what your boyfriend wants and not anything about what you want.

Do you want kids? What do you feel God has called you to in life?

I'm going to guess that you probably want kids.

If you do, and he is dead set against it, well...I think your real dilema is that you love him but may not see a future in the relationship.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

You should seek out a good and pious priest to discuss this with, and keep it at the forefront of your prayers. (and ignore alicemary's attempt to undermine the teachings of the Church-- don't let yourself be tempted in that fashion-- the Church will not lead you astray)

But all of the potential circumstances surrounding this are probably not able to be discuss on the boards, so if you can find a good priest to talk with, it's the route I would take.

[KatS]

[quote]I'll keep you in my prayers[/quote]

Thanks M-K, you are too kind.

[quote]We can't really offer any real guidance.[/quote]

But y'all have clarified a lot for me and given me plenty to think about.

Sorry I may not respond to everyone in this post right now, the wheels in my mind are turning and then I will post again when my mind is done "processing"! :

[prose]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1018094' date='Jul 5 2006, 09:44 PM']
My answer will not please alot of people but since I am the age of the man you would like to marry, I may have a slightly different view.
I think the ONLY factor is DO YOU WANT KIDS.. If so start looking elsewhere and hurry up the search. Hey, I know what you are feeling, been there, done that. I just an tell you what I would do.
Like I said, I know what hate emails this will generate, but I can only tell you what is in my OLD HEART.
[/quote]

I understand how you feel, but not liking something doesn't make it any less of a sin.

There is always NFP. This man doesn't have to agree to have children right now, but he must be open to life if it happens. And his age may be a legitimate reason to postpone or avoid pregnancy within marriage while still maintaining a sacramental marriage.

In addition to this Kat, you may also want to keep these things in mind:

[quote]3. What is the difference between a valid and an invalid Catholic marriage?

Just as individual states have certain requirements for civil marriage (e.g., a marriage license, blood tests), the Catholic Church also has requirements before Catholics can be considered validly married in the eyes of the Church. A valid Catholic marriage results from four elements: (1) the spouses are free to marry; (2) they freely exchange their consent; (3) in consenting to marry, they have the intention to marry for life, to be faithful to one another and be open to children; and (4) their consent is given in the presence of two witnesses and before a properly authorized Church minister. Exceptions to the last requirement must be approved by church authority.

4. If a Catholic wants to marry a non-Catholic, how can they assure that the marriage is recognized by the Church?

In addition to meeting the criteria for a valid Catholic marriage (see question #3), the Catholic must seek permission from the local bishop to marry a non-Catholic. If the person is a non-Catholic Christian, this permission is called a "permission to enter into a mixed marriage." If the person is a non-Christian, the permission is called a "dispensation from disparity of cult." Those helping to prepare the couple for marriage can assist with the permission process.
[/quote]

Edited July 6, 2006 by prose