philosophi questions that people have asked me

[eperez]

hi it's me Eric i am 16 years old and i'll try to answer this questions

people has asked me "how can you prove God exist?" well i tell them "how can you proove God

does not exist" they say "well i don't see him,hear him,or feel like he is close to me"

i told them "well if he would not exist then the christian catholic bible would not exist.
look at you you have lived years here on earth and havn't asked the question to yourself
we'll we must have a begining and an end we were born but before hummanity came
how could know our begining? there must been a builder of hummans which was God
himself. it's like a car you need the builder to constructed it cant contruct itself."

they told me "what abouth darwins theory that we came from monkeys"
i told them "have you ever seen a monkey even in the news tranform into humman and have you seen a monkey live more than 100 years"

they told me "no.never. abouth the bible could it have been written by a specific person like a jew
and created the ideas of God."
i answer"no it's not an idea of men it's the history of God and his people. it's like when you are saying our history books they are false bacause it was written by other people"
they say "it's different it's more realistic"
i told them "God wouldn't be God if he ha not have a super power. if you don't belive in God then how could you know there is urope when you havent seen it"
they say "oh it's different.we see it by tv even there is proof people talk about it"
i told them "well if they told abouth it. why don't you belive in the bible which many people talk abouth it and people still belive in God"
thye quept reasoning he could not answer
then they told me
"you know i neaver thought about it. now you r making me belive"
i told him "it's not me it's God.God bless you"
then i left in the next day the same person whent to church and converted into catholic

the next questin they have is "why is he selfish?" i do not like people sking me the question but i answerd "God Loves you. he is not selfish. if he would have been then tell me why he let you live.
he wants to be your friend tell me would you like to be tricked a lot of times i was i know how he feels about it he wants to have good friends. he wants to save us.
he tells me then why does he says if you do this then you go to hell especially the ten commandments"
i told him "the ten commandments it's the laws of nature he put it to see how much we care about him. and if we wouldn't have the ten commandments we would al kill and do the worse stuff"
then he told me he neaver thought of that
then he said "i have sex with my girlfriend i know it's a mortal sin but why is it wrong?"
i told him" the wrong thing is that you do not know if she is your future sex it's not love
real love it's respect virginity your just knowing the person.it's not your wife you know
what if she will not your future tell me what if this day is your last day?"
he asked me "have you ever have a girlfriend i told him no most girls that i like they are not from my religion and the ones who are which were 2 they are disrespecfull they do not respect nor even with their conversation"
"in the Us my life has been kind of hard because i am use to a conservative place and here it's liberal but not as europe."

he said "thank you" i said to the "lord not me"

if you have more question i'll answer my mail is again bobajengo_fett@hotmail.com

[rkwright]

hello and welcome to phatmass!

thanks for posting your apologetic tips, hopefully you can learn some here also!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I appreciate your apostolic zeal. Keep living for Christ.

[hierochloe]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1019642' date='Jul 7 2006, 07:55 PM']
I appreciate your apostolic zeal. Keep living for Christ.
[/quote]
What raph said. W00t!

[Franimus]

here's a question: what about couples that are engaged and really sure of themselves that they're going to marry? (for instance, a week or so before the wedding)

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Franimus' post='1021558' date='Jul 11 2006, 06:46 AM']
here's a question: what about couples that are engaged and really sure of themselves that they're going to marry? (for instance, a week or so before the wedding)
[/quote]
Being certain of the future is not the same as being in the future. I can be certain that I will have a parachute on my back next week, but that doesn't mean I should go skydiving today.

Additionally, sex will be gracefully enhanced by marriage. It's the way God meant for it to be. Furthermore, having sex before marriage (at all) really says, "it's okay if we separate the act from the commitment the act is supposed to express. It's okay if we separate physical expressions of love from actual love. It's okay if we separate ourselves from grace. As long as I get what I want out of you and give you what you want, then we're good." Sex is not meant to be commerce, an exchange of goods, it's meant to be charity, a total gift. When you make it about "we're both itching, so let's scratch each other's backs," it's really not helping with the much more real itch all humans have to love and be loved...for life. Apart from the commitments of marriage, any sex, no matter how veiled in "good will," is selfish, because it doesn't seek to do what is ultimately fulfilling to the beloved.

[Franimus]

(forgot to specify in my previous post: not that I believe it's fine for couples to engage in premarital sex, just wanted a good solid argument to use when I discuss it with others)
"separate the act from the commitment the act is supposed to express. " is a mighty good one.

[pyranima]

Really great start. let me show you where you can improve a bit (as a former atheist i have a lot of fun with this).

[quote name='eperez' post='1019626' date='Jul 7 2006, 07:45 PM']
hi it's me Eric i am 16 years old and i'll try to answer this questions

people has asked me "how can you prove God exist?" well i tell them "how can you proove God

does not exist" they say "well i don't see him,hear him,or feel like he is close to me"

i told them "well if he would not exist then the christian catholic bible would not exist.[/quote]
This argument doesnt work at all. look at the Koran, and other religious books. its not a good idea to point to the bible for the existance of got it tends only to irratate the other person. but as a side note if you are talking specifically about the bible you might point out how its like no other collection of books in the world, written by 40 different authors yet it seems to have one main thought that flows perfectly togther. take starwars you have the orignal 9 written by Lucas and the are great they flow together in one thought, but take starwars books writen by other people and its not quite the same you can see the difference. even in Shadows of the empire (one of my favorite starwars books) you can tell that the author did not have quite the same thing in mind.

i would suggest you ask these questions
Ok lets suppose for a moment God does not exist, where did the idea of God come from?
if you get the answer "someone made him up"
ask "how? how did we come to a level of thought to be able to make him up?"
the point out that "nearlly all of humanity even in distant parts of the world have believed in some kind of Supernatural being"
to which they will answer "yes there are so many that is my point they all vary how could you know which one is true if there is one"
at this point you can direct them to Mere Christianity, or Theology and Sanity. and say "Logic"




[quote]
look at you you have lived years here on earth and havn't asked the question to yourself
we'll we must have a begining and an end we were born but before hummanity came
how could know our begining? there must been a builder of hummans which was God
himself. it's like a car you need the builder to constructed it cant contruct itself."[/quote]to which i respond. who made the watch maker? the answer to this question is a simple one but the question can seem like a victory for the other side at first glance. who made God? no one. and they respond "but someone had to according to your thinking something cant come from thing"
ask this question; is God male? this will puzzle them so ask again "is God male?" to which they will say "you Christians think he is" then you say "God is not a male nor is me female God has no Physical body but is beyond Male and Female we call God 'Him', 'He', and 'Father' because he that is how he has showed himself but no one ACTUALLY believes God is a man if they do they are very wrong". at this time you have side tract them enough to bring them back to the orignal point with a clearer thought, "now to the first cause, think of God as neither male nor female but as the first cause. dont think of Him as God at the moment but rather as at thought. if i drop a rock what will happen? it will fall what caused it? my hand. if there are ripples in the pond what cused it? the rock, but what caused the rock to fall, my letting go of it with my hand. thus my hand is the first cause. this is an imperfect example of what i mean to demonstrate but think of the big bang, it made everything else. but what made the big bang? scientists know there was something that caused it but what? that thing is the FIRST Cause, as in the VERY FIRST cause. no human mind could accept that a watch made itself. that some how the parts mystically fell off a cliff and happened to fall together in right working order. that is what you are proposeing. what i am propose is that there was SOMETHING first and that SOMETHING is the first cause, like the first domino and i am suggesting that the first cause must have no cause otherwise it becomes not the first cause but the second cause."

then ask "why do you reject the Idea of God? you reject it because you cant accept that something came from nothing, and that is exactly why i believe in God because i cant believe something came from nothing, The first cause in order to be the first cause must ALWAY exist it must exist outside of time because time is something caused (or created) by the first cause, thus again the first cause must have no cause and it must exist forever with no begining and no end if the first cause has a begining then we have a problem because there was a time when it was not so why did it suddenly come into being what 'CAUSED' it. but if it always is then nothing needs cause it because it causes itself its existance is needs nothing"
[quote]
they told me "what abouth darwins theory that we came from monkeys"
i told them "have you ever seen a monkey even in the news tranform into humman and have you seen a monkey live more than 100 years"[/quote]to which i reply "and so what if we did come from monkeys? i believe that The first cause or God is Orderly and that he uses a process a method if you will to create things, my religion has no problem with evolution. however there are many problems which even Scientists admit with Darwins form of evolution. but im not a Scientist so let me deal with what i see as the problem of evolution, what is the purpose of existance?" and they say "i dont know" and you say "the purpose of evolution is to surpass what you already are to become better than you already are. think about it, i microbe evolves to become better than another one and they become plants and those plants become differnt plants and some microbe become animals all of the time what is each evolutionary form in the ecosystem trying to do?" and they say "i dont know" and you say "they are trying to one up the other, they are trying to figure out how to survive how to make it so the competition and preditors cant harm them right?" and they admit "well yes that makes sense" to which you say "that is exactly my point where does it end?" the ask "what do you mean? things keep evolving." and you repsond "yes but to what? what is the ultimate Goal? you are telling me that all of life is completely random and that evolution happens to happen to happen to happen.... and it will go on with no ultimate end in mind, its just some nihilistic mindless existance? no human in their right mind could accept that. i have never seen one creature evolve from another but i believe it is possible but i believe we are the ends of that means. what is existance working towards what is the Goal? us."
[quote]
they told me "no.never. abouth the bible could it have been written by a specific person like a jew
and created the ideas of God."
i answer"no it's not an idea of men it's the history of God and his people. it's like when you are saying our history books they are false bacause it was written by other people"
they say "it's different it's more realistic"
i told them "God wouldn't be God if he ha not have a super power. if you don't belive in God then how could you know there is urope when you havent seen it"[/quote]Very Good question what about the bible? well first of all THE Bible is not 1 book but 73 books, not 66 not 80 but 73. lets also distinguish that we are no longer talking about the question of is there A god but is THE Christian God the right god? now about the bible its 73 book writen by 40 differnt people with one theme that flows all together. but lets look at some specific things about the bible, 1 I believe it is 100% true i believe in it 100% and i believe in it literally, notice i did not say letterally. i believe all of Gensis but i do not believe the world was created in 6 24 hour days" and they say "AHAH! you dont believe in it literally" and you respond with "if i hand you star wars are you going to believe those things actually happened?" unless they are a quack they answer"NO that is absured" and you say "and if i had you a biography are you going to believe its a work of Fiction?" and they say "well no", "its the same thing with the bible, you have potery, history, alogory, and many different writing styles. what if Gensis is not meant to be history but simply to tell us 'God made all thing and he used a process' think about it there are two different accounts of creation one in Gensis 1 and another in Gensis 2 two conflicting accounts? how can this be? the person who wrote Gesnsis 1 wrote Gensis 2 and you would think as short as those chapters are you could remember what you wrote only a few lines ago. no the person knew they were conflicting and i think it was done on purpose to say 'look idiot its not 7 literal days look i wrote God didnt even make day and night until day 4, all i am trying to say is 'God made all things'. when you read something literally you are reading it how the author intended it, for example if i write in a journal 'its raining cats and dogs' would you really believe cats and dogs are falling from the sky?" "well no" "exactly, they have found lost ancient Cities using the bible so we know where it is historical it is accurate. books like tobit however are not History but anology. but lets jump to the NT because i dont feel like spending hours on this topic, we know Jesus existed there is good historical evidence he existed, we also know he claimed to be God how do we know this because the NT tells us so" "but i dont believe in the NT", "just because you dont believe in them does not make them any less history, let me point this out to you of all the writings directly after the death of that Jew on the Cross they all say 1 thing, he is divine. but there is something else of great interest to note. Jesus preformed a lot of miracles or so the bible says right?" "so the bible claims" "EXACTLY, dont you think its kind of funny that the bible says 'Jesus took 2 loafs of bread and 3 fish and feed thousands, dont you think someone would have said 'hey wait a minute i was there when he gave that sermon he never did that' no the writings from that time that discredit Jesus never speak agains the miracles he preforms. but lets ask this question we know for certian from history that Jesus condemned himself by saying he was God, that is an insane thing for a Jew to say. yes maybe a pagan but not a Jew. we know he died a horrible death for it, and we also know that 11 out of the 12 apostles died horrible deaths for saying Jesus is God, Paul was beheaded, James was shoved off a roof, and Peter was Crucified upside down, and 36 of the first 38 popes were martyers, these people sure died horrible deaths for a lie."

[quote]
they say "oh it's different.we see it by tv even there is proof people talk about it"[/quote]i saw james bond... and Lord of the Rings... there are different kinds of Proofs some are Scientific some are philosophical. have you ever seen jupitor? yet you believe just because someone showed you a picture and told you its there. you have to trust that that person is being honest, its the same thing with atoms, and with most things in science. we rely on scientists to tell us about Science, but we rely on Philosophers to tell us things like if God exists or not.


[quote]
i told them "well if they told abouth it. why don't you belive in the bible which many people talk abouth it and people still belive in God"
thye quept reasoning he could not answer
then they told me
"you know i neaver thought about it. now you r making me belive"
i told him "it's not me it's God.God bless you"
then i left in the next day the same person whent to church and converted into catholic

the next questin they have is "why is he selfish?" i do not like people sking me the question but i answerd "God Loves you. he is not selfish. if he would have been then tell me why he let you live.
he wants to be your friend tell me would you like to be tricked a lot of times i was i know how he feels about it he wants to have good friends. he wants to save us.
he tells me then why does he says if you do this then you go to hell especially the ten commandments"
i told him "the ten commandments it's the laws of nature he put it to see how much we care about him. and if we wouldn't have the ten commandments we would al kill and do the worse stuff"
then he told me he neaver thought of that
then he said "i have sex with my girlfriend i know it's a mortal sin but why is it wrong?"
i told him" the wrong thing is that you do not know if she is your future sex it's not love
real love it's respect virginity your just knowing the person.it's not your wife you know
what if she will not your future tell me what if this day is your last day?"
he asked me "have you ever have a girlfriend i told him no most girls that i like they are not from my religion and the ones who are which were 2 they are disrespecfull they do not respect nor even with their conversation"
"in the Us my life has been kind of hard because i am use to a conservative place and here it's liberal but not as europe."

he said "thank you" i said to the "lord not me"

if you have more question i'll answer my mail is again bobajengo_fett@hotmail.com
[/quote]
good case God bless

[eperez]

[quote name='pyranima' post='1021969' date='Jul 11 2006, 02:11 PM']
Really great start. let me show you where you can improve a bit (as a former atheist i have a lot of fun with this).
This argument doesnt work at all. look at the Koran, and other religious books. its not a good idea to point to the bible for the existance of got it tends only to irratate the other person. but as a side note if you are talking specifically about the bible you might point out how its like no other collection of books in the world, written by 40 different authors yet it seems to have one main thought that flows perfectly togther. take starwars you have the orignal 9 written by Lucas and the are great they flow together in one thought, but take starwars books writen by other people and its not quite the same you can see the difference. even in Shadows of the empire (one of my favorite starwars books) you can tell that the author did not have quite the same thing in mind.

i would suggest you ask these questions
Ok lets suppose for a moment God does not exist, where did the idea of God come from?
if you get the answer "someone made him up"
ask "how? how did we come to a level of thought to be able to make him up?"
the point out that "nearlly all of humanity even in distant parts of the world have believed in some kind of Supernatural being"
to which they will answer "yes there are so many that is my point they all vary how could you know which one is true if there is one"
at this point you can direct them to Mere Christianity, or Theology and Sanity. and say "Logic"
to which i respond. who made the watch maker? the answer to this question is a simple one but the question can seem like a victory for the other side at first glance. who made God? no one. and they respond "but someone had to according to your thinking something cant come from thing"
ask this question; is God male? this will puzzle them so ask again "is God male?" to which they will say "you Christians think he is" then you say "God is not a male nor is me female God has no Physical body but is beyond Male and Female we call God 'Him', 'He', and 'Father' because he that is how he has showed himself but no one ACTUALLY believes God is a man if they do they are very wrong". at this time you have side tract them enough to bring them back to the orignal point with a clearer thought, "now to the first cause, think of God as neither male nor female but as the first cause. dont think of Him as God at the moment but rather as at thought. if i drop a rock what will happen? it will fall what caused it? my hand. if there are ripples in the pond what cused it? the rock, but what caused the rock to fall, my letting go of it with my hand. thus my hand is the first cause. this is an imperfect example of what i mean to demonstrate but think of the big bang, it made everything else. but what made the big bang? scientists know there was something that caused it but what? that thing is the FIRST Cause, as in the VERY FIRST cause. no human mind could accept that a watch made itself. that some how the parts mystically fell off a cliff and happened to fall together in right working order. that is what you are proposeing. what i am propose is that there was SOMETHING first and that SOMETHING is the first cause, like the first domino and i am suggesting that the first cause must have no cause otherwise it becomes not the first cause but the second cause."

then ask "why do you reject the Idea of God? you reject it because you cant accept that something came from nothing, and that is exactly why i believe in God because i cant believe something came from nothing, The first cause in order to be the first cause must ALWAY exist it must exist outside of time because time is something caused (or created) by the first cause, thus again the first cause must have no cause and it must exist forever with no begining and no end if the first cause has a begining then we have a problem because there was a time when it was not so why did it suddenly come into being what 'CAUSED' it. but if it always is then nothing needs cause it because it causes itself its existance is needs nothing"
to which i reply "and so what if we did come from monkeys? i believe that The first cause or God is Orderly and that he uses a process a method if you will to create things, my religion has no problem with evolution. however there are many problems which even Scientists admit with Darwins form of evolution. but im not a Scientist so let me deal with what i see as the problem of evolution, what is the purpose of existance?" and they say "i dont know" and you say "the purpose of evolution is to surpass what you already are to become better than you already are. think about it, i microbe evolves to become better than another one and they become plants and those plants become differnt plants and some microbe become animals all of the time what is each evolutionary form in the ecosystem trying to do?" and they say "i dont know" and you say "they are trying to one up the other, they are trying to figure out how to survive how to make it so the competition and preditors cant harm them right?" and they admit "well yes that makes sense" to which you say "that is exactly my point where does it end?" the ask "what do you mean? things keep evolving." and you repsond "yes but to what? what is the ultimate Goal? you are telling me that all of life is completely random and that evolution happens to happen to happen to happen.... and it will go on with no ultimate end in mind, its just some nihilistic mindless existance? no human in their right mind could accept that. i have never seen one creature evolve from another but i believe it is possible but i believe we are the ends of that means. what is existance working towards what is the Goal? us."
Very Good question what about the bible? well first of all THE Bible is not 1 book but 73 books, not 66 not 80 but 73. lets also distinguish that we are no longer talking about the question of is there A god but is THE Christian God the right god? now about the bible its 73 book writen by 40 differnt people with one theme that flows all together. but lets look at some specific things about the bible, 1 I believe it is 100% true i believe in it 100% and i believe in it literally, notice i did not say letterally. i believe all of Gensis but i do not believe the world was created in 6 24 hour days" and they say "AHAH! you dont believe in it literally" and you respond with "if i hand you star wars are you going to believe those things actually happened?" unless they are a quack they answer"NO that is absured" and you say "and if i had you a biography are you going to believe its a work of Fiction?" and they say "well no", "its the same thing with the bible, you have potery, history, alogory, and many different writing styles. what if Gensis is not meant to be history but simply to tell us 'God made all thing and he used a process' think about it there are two different accounts of creation one in Gensis 1 and another in Gensis 2 two conflicting accounts? how can this be? the person who wrote Gesnsis 1 wrote Gensis 2 and you would think as short as those chapters are you could remember what you wrote only a few lines ago. no the person knew they were conflicting and i think it was done on purpose to say 'look idiot its not 7 literal days look i wrote God didnt even make day and night until day 4, all i am trying to say is 'God made all things'. when you read something literally you are reading it how the author intended it, for example if i write in a journal 'its raining cats and dogs' would you really believe cats and dogs are falling from the sky?" "well no" "exactly, they have found lost ancient Cities using the bible so we know where it is historical it is accurate. books like tobit however are not History but anology. but lets jump to the NT because i dont feel like spending hours on this topic, we know Jesus existed there is good historical evidence he existed, we also know he claimed to be God how do we know this because the NT tells us so" "but i dont believe in the NT", "just because you dont believe in them does not make them any less history, let me point this out to you of all the writings directly after the death of that Jew on the Cross they all say 1 thing, he is divine. but there is something else of great interest to note. Jesus preformed a lot of miracles or so the bible says right?" "so the bible claims" "EXACTLY, dont you think its kind of funny that the bible says 'Jesus took 2 loafs of bread and 3 fish and feed thousands, dont you think someone would have said 'hey wait a minute i was there when he gave that sermon he never did that' no the writings from that time that discredit Jesus never speak agains the miracles he preforms. but lets ask this question we know for certian from history that Jesus condemned himself by saying he was God, that is an insane thing for a Jew to say. yes maybe a pagan but not a Jew. we know he died a horrible death for it, and we also know that 11 out of the 12 apostles died horrible deaths for saying Jesus is God, Paul was beheaded, James was shoved off a roof, and Peter was Crucified upside down, and 36 of the first 38 popes were martyers, these people sure died horrible deaths for a lie."

i saw james bond... and Lord of the Rings... there are different kinds of Proofs some are Scientific some are philosophical. have you ever seen jupitor? yet you believe just because someone showed you a picture and told you its there. you have to trust that that person is being honest, its the same thing with atoms, and with most things in science. we rely on scientists to tell us about Science, but we rely on Philosophers to tell us things like if God exists or not.

good case God bless
[/quote]

hello[b]pyranima[/b] thats good you can think beond what people think especially an eithiest which prepares us for the defence of religion
about darwins theory it was actually a novel he was writting it is not true even the cscientist know that but they used it to take the idea of God appart in schools now at days they won't tell the truth
about history my favotrite subject is science and philosophy because thats how i can prove that God exist if you ask many questions abouth science it won't finnish until you answer it in an beyond natural way.
i belive the question where did the idea of God come from?
well that is a question we might neaver know because God have a beginnig nor ending we might know part of his history between men and God but not himself

did we come to a level of thought to be able to make him up?"
the answer for that one is we did not make him up he is real as you and me if you dont believe it fine it's your problem but we already told you about God

your other question who made God?
that was the right answer no one if he would be created he would not be a God then the creator of God would be God which is a herracy.

abouth gods specie is he a man or women?
god is not a women nor man like yous said
but Jesus calls him a father not a mother and all on the bible he is called the father of creation
even jesus himself came as man not a women
why do you reject the Idea of God?
i would say we do not reject it we believe it but he is not how you think in a manly god
thanx god bless you



[quote name='Franimus' post='1021558' date='Jul 11 2006, 03:46 AM']
here's a question: what about couples that are engaged and really sure of themselves that they're going to marry? (for instance, a week or so before the wedding)
[/quote]

hello [b]Franimus [/b] well the marriage would not be valid because they have married only for sex not for real love
6 commandment says thou shall not make adultery nor impure acts
their marriege would sooner or later be nuled wich means it was not valid in the day of the marriage and it did not exist even if they where all redy. but just because they wern't married by
real love it did not exist.
nule is not the same of devorcement in the church we catholics do not accept devorcement because it is adultery

thanks for the question God bless you

Edited July 17, 2006 by eperez

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]about darwins theory it was actually a novel he was writting it is not true even the cscientist know [/quote]

Then it was one peculiar novel.

Evolution does not preclude the existence of God. Most Catholics either accept evolutionary theory or are at least open to the possibility. The Vatican has made no official pronouncement on the subject, but says that it is up to the individual believer to make up his own mind. Personally I'm of the opinion that how the world came into being is of far less importance than what we do with it now. The question, "Is Genesis figurative or literal?" is not as vital as, "How can we take care of God's earth?"

You may disagree, and of course you are free to do that. But I warn you that starting out with the statement, "Darwin was only writing a novel and he knew it," won't get you far in the field of practical apologetics.