Mediatrix

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

How do Catholics explain that Mary is the mediatrix of all graces through scriptural or traditional proof? What logic shows that God would allow all "grace" to flow through Mary to man, and why would this be necessary? What function would it serve?

Also, how does one quantify grace, God's favor towards man? I speak here of concepts such as indulgences.

Thanks.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

A simple way of looking at Mary as Mediatrix of all graces is to recognize that Christ came to the world through Mary, and so continues to grace the world through her. Christ is the Head of His Body, the Church; and Mary, so to speak, is the neck.

All Christians (the Saints in Heaven, and those who pray on earth), are called to share and participate in the perfect mediation of Jesus. We are all called to be co-mediators—to act as a 'go-between' for another and Christ. In essence, this is what we do when another person asks us to pray for them. The goal of mediation is not to distance, but to reconcile.

Furthermore, the Catholic Church does acknowledge and teach that ALL mediation is unconditionally dependent on the ONE perfect mediation of Jesus Christ (CCC 2664). 1 Timothy 2:5 does not exclude subordinate co-mediators (for prayer is a form of mediation, and just previously Paul exhorts the Christians to pray for him), but rather, 1 Timothy 2:5 excludes rival/opposing mediators. To have others participate in the perfect mediation of Christ does not obscure the glory of God, but rather further manifests it. Christians are obliged to participate in Christ's perfect sonship (and become adoptive sons of God through Christ—Galatians 4), and all are called to participate in the priesthood even though Christ is the only High Priest (etc.). Jesus is the one, perfect, Mediator, and Mary by her unique participation is called Mediatrix, and we (and the other Saints in Heaven) are tertiary co-mediators.

Why/how does Mary have a unique participation? In Luke's Gospel Mary directly mediates 2 occasions of grace: Jesus' (the source of all grace) presence in her womb mediates grace to Elizabeth (when she is overshadowed by the Holy Spirit), and then to John the Baptist in the womb (who leaps). The Wedding at Cana in John 2:5 shows Mary mediating (/interceding) for Jesus' first public miracle & ministry.

Lastly, Mediatrix is implicit in the term "mother"—mothers mediate, and intercede for their children (we see this all the time today). For Mary, as universal Mother this extends through Jesus to the rest of the Body of Christ (us, as Christians), and thus Mary is Mediatrix (co-mediator in a unique way).

[veni]

I believe that when explaining Mary as Mediatrix, some scriptural proof could include Paul's 1st Corinthians when he states that "we are God's coworkers" (3:9). God is fully capable of doing things on His own, but in raising children (us), the best way is to include them in your work and better ensure they grow up the way you want them to. So Mary, as Daughter, Mother and Spouse to our Trinitarian God plays an essential role in that cowork. If we are all called to work with God and with each other, leading each other closer to Christ, who better can play that role than His own Mother?!? And just like any good mom, she is always there ready to answer us and lead us closer to her Divine Son. Another aspect is, just like Christ, she understands human life. But unlike Christ, who was both True God and True Man, Mary was just "man" (yet conceived without sin=an immaculate human). And I believe after being assumed and crowned in Heaven, she is all more than eager to share God's graces with us. Just ponder the love she must feel for all of us. And for some traditional proof, there is more than enough to talk about. Sorry if some of this seemed alot like rambling, but Marian devotion is something special to me. And when it comes to indulgences, I have no clue...

[Fides_et_Ratio]

indulgences are not 'quantified'.

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

Plenary, partial, and X number of days per said prayer/work would leave one to believe otherwise.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

The Church does not put a numbered "quantity" on grace. Indulgences are not the equivalent of grace. I recommend looking up the definition of an indulgence (I think it's around CCC 1470 or so).

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' post='1021007' date='Jul 10 2006, 11:03 AM']
indulgences are not 'quantified'.
[/quote]
Well, the historical practice of indulgences did assign durations to partial indulgences. But, these durations did not represent an amount of time spent in purgatory. Instead, the time was used to compare the benefits of the indulgence with an earthly penance. Quoting the Catholic Encyclopedia ([url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm"]link[/url]):
[quote]A partial indulgence commutes only a certain portion of the penalty; and this portion is determined in accordance with the penitential discipline of the early Church. To say that an indulgence of so many days or years is granted means that it cancels an amount of purgatorial punishment equivalent to that which would have been remitted, in the sight of God, by the performance of so many days or years of the ancient canonical penance. Here, evidently, the reckoning makes no claim to absolute exactness; it has only a relative value.[/quote]

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1021037' date='Jul 10 2006, 12:33 PM']
Well, the historical practice of indulgences did assign durations to partial indulgences. But, these durations did not represent an amount of time spent in purgatory. Instead, the time was used to compare the benefits of the indulgence with an earthly penance. Quoting the Catholic Encyclopedia ([url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm"]link[/url]):
[/quote]
Right, but indulgences and grace are not entirely equal. They have different meanings. Grace is far more expansive than an indulgence.

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1021037' date='Jul 10 2006, 11:33 AM']
Well, the historical practice of indulgences did assign durations to partial indulgences. But, these durations did not represent an amount of time spent in purgatory. Instead, the time was used to compare the benefits of the indulgence with an earthly penance. Quoting the Catholic Encyclopedia ([url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm"]link[/url]):
[/quote]

Hence, a quantification. Indulgence is merely an example of an act of grace of course.

[Mateo el Feo]

BTW, it might help for everyone to have the following encyclical handy:

Redemptoris Mater (Mother of the Redeemer):
[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031987_redemptoris-mater_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_pau...s-mater_en.html[/url]

[pyranima]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' post='1020986' date='Jul 10 2006, 08:22 AM']
How do Catholics explain that Mary is the mediatrix of all graces through scriptural or traditional proof? What logic shows that God would allow all "grace" to flow through Mary to man, and why would this be necessary? What function would it serve?

Also, how does one quantify grace, God's favor towards man? I speak here of concepts such as indulgences.

Thanks.
[/quote]
I can prove it with ease its rather logical. Mary is the Mother of God, no one can dispute that. God chose the virgin Mary from all time to be the one to bring God into the world. Grace comes from God through Mary Christ came Through Mary thus God decided to bring Slavation through Mary. Without Christ there is no Salvation, without Mary there is no Christ thus without Mary there is no Salvation either. this is not to say that Mary's role in salvation is equal or more important than Christs. just as Eves fall was not more important than adams Fall. but Eve had her role and the New Eve has a role with the new Adam, sin was introduced into the world by Eve thus Salvation is introduced to the world by the new Eve and God continues to use the humble Mary she is the "Pencil in God's hand"

Grace

1 a : unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification b : a virtue coming from God c : a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine grace
2 a : APPROVAL, FAVOR <stayed in his good graces> b archaic : MERCY, PARDON c : a special favor : PRIVILEGE <each in his place, by right, not grace, shall rule his heritage -- Rudyard Kipling> d : disposition to or an act or instance of kindness, courtesy, or clemency e : a temporary exemption : REPRIEVE
3 a : a charming or attractive trait or characteristic b : a pleasing appearance or effect : CHARM <all the grace of youth -- John Buchan> c : ease and suppleness of movement or bearing
4 -- used as a title of address or reference for a duke, a duchess, or an archbishop
5 : a short prayer at a meal asking a blessing or giving thanks
6 plural, capitalized : three sister goddesses in Greek mythology who are the givers of charm and beauty
7 : a musical trill, turn, or appoggiatura
8 a : sense of propriety or right <had the grace not to run for elective office -- Calvin Trillin> b : the quality or state of being considerate or thoughtful
synonym see MERCY

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

[quote name='pyranima' post='1021133' date='Jul 10 2006, 12:25 PM']
I can prove it with ease its rather logical. Mary is the Mother of God, no one can dispute that. God chose the virgin Mary from all time to be the one to bring God into the world. Grace comes from God through Mary Christ came Through Mary thus God decided to bring Slavation through Mary. Without Christ there is no Salvation, without Mary there is no Christ thus without Mary there is no Salvation either. this is not to say that Mary's role in salvation is equal or more important than Christs. just as Eves fall was not more important than adams Fall. but Eve had her role and the New Eve has a role with the new Adam, sin was introduced into the world by Eve thus Salvation is introduced to the world by the new Eve and God continues to use the humble Mary she is the "Pencil in God's hand"
[/quote]

By the mere fact that Mary gave birth to Jesus does not make Mary the mediatrix of all grace. The leap you are attempting is anything but logical.

[Mateo el Feo]

I didn't include the next sentence after the Catholic Encyclopedia quote, but it might be useful:
[quote]God alone knows what penalty remains to be paid and what its precise amount is in severity[/quote]
[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' post='1021055' date='Jul 10 2006, 11:41 AM']
Hence, a quantification. Indulgence is merely an example of an act of grace of course.
[/quote]I don't think I'd agree that an indulgence is "merely an example of an act of grace." Are you talking about sanctifying grace or actual grace? If the former, you should know that an indulgence can do nothing to save someone from damnation. The purpose of an indulgence is to lessen or remove the suffering caused by purgatory:([url="http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=Kjv1Cor.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=3&division=div1"]See 1 Cor 3:15[/url]).

To enter into heaven, we must be perfect. There are those who die in a state of Grace, who have "not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions" ([url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm"]Link[/url]). God gives us the opportunity to be made perfect though the cleansing fires of Purgatory and/or the merit of indulgences, whose value derives from the meritorious act of Christ's Sacrifice on the Cross.

[pyranima]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' post='1021140' date='Jul 10 2006, 10:31 AM']
By the mere fact that Mary gave birth to Jesus does not make Mary the mediatrix of all grace. The leap you are attempting is anything but logical.
[/quote]
there is no leap think about it through eve all sin came. through Mary grace comes. its not that God NEEDS mary, but rather through her Salvation was brought and continues to be brought.

[Mateo el Feo]

More stuff to quote:
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MARY2.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MARY2.HTM[/url]

This quote, in turn, refers (among other things) to Lumen Gentium, paragraph 62:
[url="http://www.cin.org/v2church.html"]http://www.cin.org/v2church.html[/url]

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

[quote name='pyranima' post='1021153' date='Jul 10 2006, 12:39 PM']
there is no leap think about it through eve all sin came. through Mary grace comes. its not that God NEEDS mary, but rather through her Salvation was brought and continues to be brought.
[/quote]

Your attempt at typology is not addressing the issue at hand. The mediatrix of Mary extends beyond her role in the birth of Christ. If that is all mediatrix meant, that she gave birth to the Savior, then there would be no difference between evangelical and Catholic understanding on this topic.

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1021149' date='Jul 10 2006, 12:36 PM']
I didn't include the next sentence after the Catholic Encyclopedia quote, but it might be useful:

I don't think I'd agree that an indulgence is "merely an example of an act of grace." Are you talking about sanctifying grace or actual grace? If the former, you should know that an indulgence can do nothing to save someone from damnation. The purpose of an indulgence is to lessen or remove the suffering caused by purgatory:([url="http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=Kjv1Cor.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=3&division=div1"]See 1 Cor 3:15[/url]).

To enter into heaven, we must be perfect. There are those who die in a state of Grace, who have "not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions" ([url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm"]Link[/url]). God gives us the opportunity to be made perfect though the cleansing fires of Purgatory and/or the merit of indulgences, whose value derives from the meritorious act of Christ's Sacrifice on the Cross.
[/quote]

right

[Mateo el Feo]

There's also an interesting quote from a book review on the Catholic Answers website. The book is called "Mary—Another Redeemer?", by James White. Here's the quote ([url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0002revw.asp"]link[/url]):
[quote]White writes, "Mary as Coredemptrix or Mediatrix [is] completely absent from the Bible and from the early Church" (75). Oh? A splendid passage of St. Irenaeus proves otherwise: [b]"Thus, the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith"[/b] (Against Heresies 180–199). Many other disproofs exist, including Paul’s, "We do share in God’s work" (1 Corinthians 3:9).[/quote]
Bold is mine. The quote (edit: St. Irenaeus' quote) is over 1,800 years old.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Mateo el Feo

[KnightofChrist]

[color="#FF0000"][size=4]Mediatrix = Mediator[/size][/color]

[quote]MARY AS MEDIATRIX
Father William Saunders
Why is Mary referred to as the "mediatrix?"—A reader in Lorton

The Second Vatican Council dedicated the eighth chapter of the "Dogmatic Constitution on the Church" to our Blessed Mother. Since our Lord continues His work and saving mission through His body, the Church, the council fathers, particularly under the guidance of Pope Paul VI, decided that it was most appropriate to address the role of our Blessed Mother here because "she is endowed with the high office and dignity of the Mother of the Son of God, and is...the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit" (No. 53). The whole Church honors Mary as a pre-eminent and wholly unique member of the Church, and as a model in faith, hope and charity.

Given this basis, Vatican II here again repeated the titles of Mary as Advocate, Helper, Benefactress and Mediatrix" (No. 62). In its basic definition, a mediator is one who serves as an intermediary between two other parties. Oftentimes, the mediator assists in reconciling differences and bringing the parties to an understanding.

Examining the references to our Blessed Mother in the sacred Scripture, we find this role of "[color="#FF0000"]mediator[/color]." Mary, recognized by Archangel Gabriel as full of grace, one with the Lord and blessed among all women, conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and bore Jesus Christ; through her "[color="#FF0000"]mediation[/color]" Jesus entered this world—true God becoming also true man.

In the Gospel passages in which she appears, our Blessed Mother always presented our Lord to others: the shepherds, the Magi, the priest Simeon, and the wedding party at Cana. She stood at the foot of the cross, sharing in our Lord's sufferings, and at that point He gave her to us as our mother. Finally, Mary was with the Apostles at Pentecost; she who brought Jesus into this world was there for the birth of the Church.

At the end of her life, Mary was assumed body and soul into heaven, the fulfillment of the promises of eternal life of body and soul given to all of the faithful. The "Dogmatic Constitution on the Church" captured her life well in stating, "Thus in a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Savior in restoring supernatural life to souls" (No. 61).

[size=4]Therefore we could look at Mary as the Mediatrix in three senses.

First, as mother of the Redeemer, she was the intermediary through which the Son of God entered this world to save us from sin.

Second, by the witness of her own faith and thereby of presenting Christ to others, she aided in reconciling sinners to her Son. Mary, sinless yet knowing the suffering caused by sin, continues to call sinners to her Son. Through her example, she inspires all of us to the faith, hope and love that our Lord would want all of us to have.

Finally, because of her assumption and role as mother for all of us, she prays for us, interceding on our behalf just as she did at Cana, asking the Lord to bestow graces to us as He wills.

This title and role of Mediatrix, however, in no way is meant to distract the faithful from Christ or erode His role as the one Mediator (No. 62). Christ's mediation is primary, self-sufficient and absolutely necessary for our salvation, whereas the mediation of our Blessed Mother is secondary and dependent upon Christ. Vatican II stated, "In the words of the Apostle (St. Paul), there is but one mediator: 'for there is but one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a redemption for all' (1 Tim 2:5-6). But Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men originates not in any inner necessity but in the disposition of God. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on His mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws its power from it. It does not hinder in any way the immediate union of the faithful with Christ but on the contrary fosters it"[/size] (No. 60)

As we draw closer to Christmas, let us implore our Blessed Mother's prayers. May her example inspire us to strive to be full of grace, seeking forgiveness of sin, and to present Christ to others in our words and deeds. As she held Christ in her womb, may we hold Christ in our hearts. In so doing, we too may become like mediators, leading others to Christ through our own witness.

Fr. Saunders is president of Notre Dame Institute and associate pastor of Queen of Apostles Parish, both in Arlington.

This article appeared in the December 8, 1994 issue of "The Arlington Catholic Herald." Courtesy of the "Arlington Catholic Herald" diocesan newspaper of the Arlington (VA) diocese. For subscription information, call 1-800-377-0511 or write 200 North Glebe Road, Suite 607 Arlington, VA 22203.

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[/quote]