Forgiveness

[scardella]

As I was walking in the afternoon heat with my head frying, the following axiom popped into my head:
[quote]To err is human. To forgive is divine.[/quote]
However upon reflection, I came to the conclusion that forgiveness is not limited to the divine sphere; ie there is a such thing as human forgiveness. Forgiveness is the satisfaction of a debt owed in justice by taking on that debt oneself. It is usually done in the pursuit of a higher good. (Is this an accurate definition?) Thus, forgiveness presupposes free will. My thought boiled down to this: if a man can have a debt owed him, then he can forgive that debt.

[Franimus]

But how does that man forgive the debt? Through mercy. Where does the mercy that man shows come from? Where did he learn that mercy? Ultimately, from God. Since forgiveness is objectively good (keeping in mind sacramental forgiveness involves penance; we don't "forgive and forget"), it is rooted in God. The "pursuit of a higher good" of which the definition speaks is also rooted in God. To forgive is indeed divine, but that doesn't mean humans can't forgive. We are, after all, made in the image and likeness of God.

[pyranima]

All things come from God, he is the source of all things and if he does not have that quality then it cannot exist. it is one of the principles for the first cause argument. God is the source thus he is the source of forgiveness.

forgiving is a Divine Act, when we forgive someone we participate in the life of God. i would argue that after Baptism and the Eucharist Forgiveness brings us into the life of God more than anything else, it is not confession that conveys the grace but the forgiveness.

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote name='pyranima' post='1029457' date='Jul 23 2006, 09:41 AM']
All things come from God, he is the source of all things and if he does not have that quality then it cannot exist. it is one of the principles for the first cause argument. God is the source thus he is the source of forgiveness.

forgiving is a Divine Act, when we forgive someone we participate in the life of God. i would argue that after Baptism and the Eucharist Forgiveness brings us into the life of God more than anything else, it is not confession that conveys the grace but the forgiveness.
[/quote]

Just to clarify something that could be misinterpreted here:

The Sacrament of Confession/Penance/Reconciliation does confer the Grace of God, and that Grace [i]is[/i] the grace of forgiveness, which brings about atonement between the individual and God.

A non-sacramental confession (e.g. "I confessed to my mother that I broke the vase") does not necessarily bring with it forgiveness, and an insincere and unrepentant confession even within the sacramental rite will not be forgiven. However, when the term "Confession" is used to refer to the Sacrament itself, then it most certainly does convey grace.

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

[quote name='JeffCR07' post='1030483' date='Jul 25 2006, 09:21 AM']
Just to clarify something that could be misinterpreted here:

The Sacrament of Confession/Penance/Reconciliation does confer the Grace of God, and that Grace [i]is[/i] the grace of forgiveness, which brings about atonement between the individual and God.

A non-sacramental confession (e.g. "I confessed to my mother that I broke the vase") does not necessarily bring with it forgiveness, and an insincere and unrepentant confession even within the sacramental rite will not be forgiven. However, when the term "Confession" is used to refer to the Sacrament itself, then it most certainly does convey grace.
[/quote]

The confession of the sin to the priest does no bestow the grace, it is the absolution in the name of Christ with the authority of the Church.

We do no merit forgiveness or God's mercy. It is entirely unmerrited. I am just trying to expand on your example.

SHALOM

[thessalonian]

I think the discussion on sanctifying grace is going to cast a spin on this thread that will not lead to a correct answer to the question at hand. Actual grace can bring about forgiveness that scardella speaks of. Therefore one cannot make the conclusion that the forgiveness he speaks does not have divine connections in my view. Any kind of mercy may have a divine component. God also implanted his laws on men's hearts (rom 2:14-16). This by grace. This as well could be a prompting of a mercy that results in forgiveness of another. Grace needs to be viewed in a much broader perspective I think. The heavens cry out to the glory of God. The sun shines on the good and the bad. Grace is poured out on all mankind. But some close their eyes and ears to it.

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote name='MC IMaGiNaZUN' post='1030485' date='Jul 25 2006, 08:30 AM']
The confession of the sin to the priest does no bestow the grace, it is the absolution in the name of Christ with the authority of the Church.

We do no merit forgiveness or God's mercy. It is entirely unmerrited. I am just trying to expand on your example.

SHALOM
[/quote]

I would modify your point by taking into account what thess has said, which is important:

The confession of the sin to the priest does not [i]necessarily[/i] bestow grace (it could, but this is dependent on the will of God), it is the absolution in the name of Christ with the authority of the Church that confers grace necessarily (ex opere operato). Thus, when one uses the word "confession" to mean the Sacrament, then it does necessarily confer grace, while when one uses the word "confession" to mean the act of confessing, it [i]can[/i] bestow grace, but it does not necessarily.

And Thess, your post reminds me a lot of that quote from St. Therese - "everything is a grace" :

Your Brother In Christ,

Jeff

[Church Punk]

Jesus said

"Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained." - John 20:23

So when looking at these we can see that true forgiveness flows from the Father as it is instituted by the Father in the first place. Pure and true human forgiveness is merited through Jesus Christ, who was and is 100% human and 100% God.

His forgiveness is manifested countless times, forgiving the adulteress woman, forgiving the pharoses, forgiving the robber on the cross next to him. This forgiveness is accomplished while Christ was entirely human (and still entirely God).

God has given use the gift to forgive one another and we should forgive one another.

Thus the saying "To err is human. To forgive is divine" is true, however there is more to it. It is through the intimate connection that the Divine has with us that allows us the capacity to forgive one another. This intimate connection also gives us the gift of free will.

So I think when looking at it in this light we can see that everything is in fact a gift from God. Our sins and errs can be turned into blessings, as when we are in the state of sin we are held at the mercy of God. We are relying on him to help us not our selves.

[thessalonian]

[quote]And Thess, your post reminds me a lot of that quote from St. Therese - "everything is a grace" [/quote]

Yes, that view shows how good God really is to us. How much he really loves us. "In him we live and move and have our being!" It puts one in awe when we no longer take for granted that he is guiding all things.

[Guest JeffCR07]

I agree, one of my big problems with contemporary philosophy is that it loses so much of the sense of wonder and awe that ought to be in it. Quotes like those are a great breath of fresh air for me :